I W Question

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Howdy Pards
The blue shirt that you see of soldiers during the IW . What year did they start using them . Also were Troopers aloud to ware the bib front shirts ? IE the Custer shirt , or did you have to be a General or at least a Officer ? or is this more hollywood stuff .

[Major 2]

Nov. 26 , 1883
Plain dark blue wool  3 button panel pullover with collar & two outside breast pockets issued in 5 sizes ,replaced the regulation Gray Flannel collarless pullover of 1878.

However, Quatermaster supplies were stretched...and Private purchase was allowed in distant posts.
The Fireman's bib front was popular, but perhap no easier obtained. Suttler stock or Homespun from a post Wife would have been common.

[Pitspitr]

Rowdy,
Was this the question we'vwe been playing telephone tag over? If so I can't improve on Major's answer. The only thing I might add is that while on campaign it was quite common for the men, officers and enlisted, to were a lot of non regulation clothing. Also in quite a few studio pictures soldiers were photographed wearing white dress shirts that were similar to modern tuxedo shirts.

[Frenchie]

For 19th century military shirts, you can't do better than Nick Sekela or Dan Wambaugh and Brian White.

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Howdy
If I was with the 7th cav at Little Bighorn I would most likely worn a grey wool shirt that was issued ?
Who carries these the largest selection of IW uniforms . I'm looking for 1870 to 1878 peroid .

[Drydock]

www.quartermastershop.com

www.cooncreekoldwest.com

[smoke]

Apparently a number(aprox. 10,000) of the 74 pattern grey shirts were made in navy blue.  Some navy blue blouse flannel, that was found to be not usable for blouses, was used to make them up in 1875.  I assume this was left over CW material.

[Curley Cole]

Old Top portrays....a sarge during the IW era, and here is his shirt...along with his adaption for holding his belt up. He patterned it after an original..

Sorry about that, the first pix I put up was of his bib shirt. I ment to put up the other one with the other shirt.

good shootin
curley

[Pitspitr]

If I was with the 7th cav at Little Bighorn I would most likely worn a grey wool shirt that was issued ?

Yes, you'd have been issued the gray M-1872 shirt. I don't know if the Lakota's took many M-1872 shirts off the men on last stand hill though. When on campaign the soldiers of the time pretty much wore whatever they wantedand alot wore private purchase clothing.

Who carries these the largest selection of IW uniforms

Unfortunately, buying good quality IWP uniforms and equipment isn't like buying quality CW uniforms and equipment.  IWP isn't as popular as CW and so there aren't as many vendors and if they make it chances are that they don't keep them on the shelf.  Are you looking for museum quality, hollywood quality or somewhere in between?

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Pitspitr
I want to get the correct shirt . It doesn't have to be museum quality . Just a good quality affordable shirt .

[Drydock]

Both links above have the correct shirts at good prices

[Pitspitr]

Rowdy,
Do you have anybody that can sew?

[Dalton Masterson]

Pitspitr, do you have a source for patterns?
I know a certain mother of mine that can sew.
DM

[Drydock]

This is a good alternative in a lighter Muslin, can be dyed the desired color.  http://www.cooncreekoldwest.com/frampage.htm   The Cotton Army shirt is more expensive,  but very  high qualty.  Wool shirts are just dang expensive  now,  a hand made propositon.  Best price i've seen for the correct wool shirt is at the Quartermaster shop,  but thats still very expensive.

Remember too, in garrison, the shirt would be covered by the uniform tunic, while in the field in hot weather the wool shirt was often replaced with private purchased muslin and cotton shirts. 

[pony express]

Remember too, in garrison, the shirt would be covered by the uniform tunic, while in the field in hot weather the wool shirt was often replaced with private purchased muslin and cotton shirts. 

A question about terminology: Looking at uniforms, I see shirts, and also blousees listed. Are the two basically the same, or is the blouse like a tunic or jacket, to be worn over the shirt?

[Drydock]

Basicly thats correct.  A shirt as we think of it now would be considered underwear for most of the 19th century.  What we would consider a jacket would be termed a Tunic or Blouse in this earlier fashion. 

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Drydock
I have a navy blue shield shirt that has gold trim and piping . It's proper for the field? but in garrison the blouse would cover it up ?
Thank you for all your help .

[Drydock]

Is it proper?  By regulation, no.  Is there evidence for such usage in the field?  Absolutely.  And yes, in garrison it would be covered by the blouse.  I would caution: thanks to congressional tightfistedness, the 1870s were a time of wide disregard for regulations in field wear, simply because there was so little money to buy uniforms, and so much of it unsuited for conditions in the west.  By the 1880s the situation improved a great deal, and regulations were more closely followed.  Certainly in the 1890s it is rare to find any deviation at all from proscribed wear.   Bear this in mind in your portrayal.

In the Osprey "warrior" series, "US Cavalryman" there is a picture of the 5th Cavalry regiment in the Black Hills, 1876.  At least 3 "Shield" shirts are present, one quite elaborate.  The same book also has a picture from the first Black Hills expidition of 1874, officers meeting, one "Shield" shirt clearly seen. There is also an undated picture from the apache campaign with a soldier wearing a shield shirt. 

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Drydock
Thanks for the answer . I want to be correct and I want to portray 1873 to 1879 roughly . We are trying to put together a Trooper side match for NCOWS . I shot a video for this today , hope it helps ? Thanks everyone for all your help .

[Drydock]

Just don't wear rank on your shirt unless your doing a "Hollywood" soldier.   Rank on shirts did not happen until after the turn of the 20th century, well into the PHillipines campaign.