Working Cowboy???

[Lone Gunman]

The Wisconsin Old West Shootist (SASS Club) have adopted a 1 pistol 1 rifle catagory called Grubline Rider.... With that said I am not renewing my NCOWS, I can't see it anymore.

I would like to clarify that the Wisconsin Old West Shootists is a dual affiliated SASS and NCOWS club. In fact, they are the longest chartered NCOWS Posse.  So Smokey, if you 'can't see it anymore' it's cause you're just not lookin'.   The Wisconsin Old West Shootists NCOWS matches are held at the exact same location as the Wisconsin Old West Shootists SASS matches, just on different days.   If the SASS part of the club has adopted a successful category from their NCOWS division...well, I think that's just great. The NCOWS Territorial Representative for the Wisconsin Old West Shootists is Tom Spanton, who has contributed several fine articles to The Shootist. Tom's next article is on his experiences with Colt's recently revived Frontier Six Shooter, it will appear in the Sept/Oct issue.

What is your draw to just shooting 2 guns? 

I would have to ask, "What is the draw to just shooting 4 guns?"  Or more specifically, what is magical about the number 4?  Granted, a lot of folks hold the opinion that when they go to a match they want to shoot as much as possible...so why limit it to 4 guns? Why not include a derringer, a pocket pistol, and a big bore single shot on every stage? Maybe throw in a .22 rifle too. If people really want to shoot as much as possible why hasn't anyone suggested a 5, 6, 7 or 8 gun category? The 4 gun (2 revolvers, rifle, shotgun) categories exist in NCOWS solely because that is what SASS arbitrarily deemed as 'normal', they have no other claim to legitimacy in comparison to any other number of firearms be that 2, 3, 8 etc.

This would seem to be an ideal topic heading to discuss the merits of changes in category structure suggested by NCOWS Judge John Torrence in the March/April 'Judges Chambers'. I have copied that portion of his column below for your reference:

Something to ponder: There has been a significant amount of discussion lately about NCOWS shooting classes, some in favor of more, some less. At the time of this writing I do not know how the vote on splitting working cowboy will turn out, but either way it has caused me to do a lot of thinking about how our shooting categories are determined. In the beginning, they mirrored SASS classes, makes sense. But if we really want to offer something different, give people more choices, what about something like this:

Gunman; 2 revolvers, rifle, shotgun
Range Detective; 2 revolvers, rifle                                                   
Lawman; 2 revolvers, shotgun
Sodbuster; 1 Revolver, single shot shotgun
Working Cowboy; 1 Revolver, rifle
Pistoleer; 2 C&B revolvers, pre 73 rifle, hammer double shotgun (as is)
Originals (as is)

Since NCOWS prides itself on doing the old west as right as possible, divide these into Traditional, (black powder, duelist) and Open, (all other options). This division should only be necessary for the first 5 categories. Each should then be offered in both men's and ladies. This would obviously be a big change, and not something to be rushed into. The last thing we would want to do is alienate present NCOWS members but, if everyone could find their niche in this system it would open up three totally new combinations of firearms that could be used in NCOWS competition. If nothing else it should give food for thought and discussion. Without overwhelming support I could not imagine submitting this to the Congress for approval. So don't worry about the game changing right away. But think about it.

[Smokey Three Toes]

  LG I know what you said is true, I can shoot every weekend with SASS, and shoot 3 - 4 times with NCOWS. I am a member with WOWS and proud to be with them. I enjoy shooting and there isn't another NCOWS within 2 - 3 hours of where I live. It just comes down to there are more SASS clubs close to me than NCOWS.
  Most of us are over 50 that shoot and are limited to what we can wear on our feet that are comfortable, I don't care what they wear on their feet as long as they are dressed in the 1800's. We have people that shoot bare foot and some of us can't wear regular boots. This would not make it at an NCOWS match. I do not have any problem with NCOWS rules, I just can't make all the requirements any more with the way my feet are getting, and after 2 hip surgery's cowboy boots really cause me way to much pain by the end of a shoot. At times I have to wear tennis shoes to be able to walk though a whole shoot. So you see I am not quiting NCOWS for any other reason.
   
I also know Tom very well and when I can't make it to the NCOWS shoot I feel guilty about it, he tries very hard to get new members, for what ever reason it isn't happening, the way the schedule is I can only make 1 of his shoots this year, and I was only able to make one last year. The NCOWS schedule and my home life just don't match. Tom is a great person and fun to shoot with.

Now I have done more to explain my reason that I normally do, and with that shoot straight and hit em all....



 

[Will Ketchum]

Smokey, I'm not sure where you got your information on NCOWS and foot wear.  I have very bad feet that require the wearing of orthodics.  Also after 2 knee surgeries I don't dare wear leather soles on my boots.  I wear lace up ropers and remove the kelties (fringe things laced in the bottom of the laces).  These look just like the brogans wore in the 1800s.

Anyway it's your choice I guess the $35.00 you save might buy a dinner for you and the Missus.   

Will Ketchum

[Stillwater]

I'm not an NCOWS member yet, and won't be, until I move from my current location.

However, Working Cowboy looks like the place for me.

My first real job, as a kid, was as a working cowboy. A rancher my family knew, had Rodeo stock, in addition to his regular stock,  and was looking for someone to tend the Rodeo stock, while the rest of his crew was tending the other stock and haying. He hired me, told me what he wanted, and I kept that job for four years.

The job was only part time, but did I ever feel like a working cowboy. It was just before my thirteenth birthday, when I got that job. Man, that was sixty, long, years ago. It just doesn't seem possible, that it was so long, ago.

Bill

[Tjackstephens]

Stillwater, so great memories. When I was a kid had a American Saddle Horse, would saddle him and ride the REA lines and the little oil field roads. Man it was great just to be out there and on that horse. His name was Biily and I have never forgot him and all those good rides. Hope to see you in NCOWS.Tj

Smokie Three Toes, It just comes down to what each of us can do, in the end it is our choise. I wish you well with what ever you have to do to enjoy this sport of shooting. I also thank you for telling us why you must do what you have to do. I understand what some of us go through just to be able to make a match. When you look around there are a lot of us getting to that point in our lifes. As Rowdy says, shoot fast and don't miss. TJ

[Stillwater]

Stillwater, so great memories. When I was a kid had a American Saddle Horse, would saddle him and ride the REA lines and the little oil field roads. Man it was great just to be out there and on that horse. His name was Biily and I have never forgot him and all those good rides. Hope to see you in NCOWS.Tj

<Deleted>

By REA lines, do you mean Rural Electrification Act power lines?

[James Hunt]

Smokey Three Toes said: "are limited to what we can wear on our feet that are comfortable"

They were in the 19th century also. We are not Cowboy Action Shooting - those are the other guy's. We wish to represent what was found on the frontier in the mid to late 1800's and there was quite a bit there, including footwear. You need not be a cowboy - you can be a miner, a farmer, a towns person - there were a variety of shoe styles worn including shoes that look very similar to those that lace up today. If you are determined to be a cowboy many would be happy to send you the few images that show a cowboy with lace up foot wear - in case anyone should ask and I doubt that they would.

PS: Just about the most comfortable footware I own was made by Robert Land, a dead ringer for a boot issued to the military prior to 1872 complete with square toe, all leather soles and pegged. A very different fit than a modern boot. I'm not saying they would be right for you, I am saying there are many options open to you and yet still be historically correct.

[Tjackstephens]

Stillwater, yes electric power lines. Guess REA is Kentucky hill country term. There were kept mowed and trimed and were good places to ride your horse. But at last horses have gotten too tall for me, last horse was 1981. Take care and enjoyed your post. Tj

[Joss House]

Is it just me or doesn't anyone else see that every time time Smokey get's up on the wrong side of the bed he's complaining about NCOWS.

He was at the '07 convention where everyone bent over backwards to welcome him. Myself included. Every since I've noticed he has found something about NCOWS to complain about. He pushes folks to the limits with his discontent, yet everyone respondes to him with kid gloves. After a while he backs off and decides to stay another year and really didn't mean it the way it came across.

After everything that our posse has gone through these past couple of years to be a part of NCOWS, I take personal offense to someone constantly finding fault with the organization. If NCOWS isn't for you then quit and find whatever it is you are looking for, but please stop this nonsense of constant complaining.

Oh well, I'll probably get spanked and have my post pulled, but sooner or later surely someone besides me have had their fill of this rhetoric.

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Is it just me or doesn't anyone else see that every time time Smokey get's up on the wrong side of the bed he's complaining about NCOWS.

He was at the '07 convention where everyone bent over backwards to welcome him. Myself included. Every since I've noticed he has found something about NCOWS to complain about. He pushes folks to the limits with his discontent, yet everyone respondes to him with kid gloves. After a while he backs off and decides to stay another year and really didn't mean it the way it came across.

After everything that our posse has gone through these past couple of years to be a part of NCOWS, I take personal offense to someone constantly finding fault with the organization. If NCOWS isn't for you then quit and find whatever it is you are looking for, but please stop this nonsense of constant complaining.

Oh well, I'll probably get spanked and have my post pulled, but sooner or later surely someone besides me have had their fill of this rhetoric.

Joss....
My sentiments exactly.....

Bill

[Irish Dave]

Smokey wrote:

I can shoot every weekend with SASS, and shoot 3 - 4 times with NCOWS.

and

The NCOWS schedule and my home life just don't match.

Smokey: Could it just be a matter of priorities? It makes sense to me that if you're shooting "every weekend with SASS" that you may not have time for much NCOWS and that "every weekend with SASS" doesn't leave much time for your home life, either.

But maybe, if NCOWS was a higher priority for you, you'd be wanting to forego a few of those "every weekend with SASS" matches so that you could find time for NCOWS without stressing your home life.

None of my business, really. Just a friendly observation.

As to distance, and this certainly isn't directed exclusively to you, by any means, but it's curious that when the Nationals were in IA for years and years and years, everybody just expected the members in IN, KY MO, OH and all over to make the drive (and many of us did), but if the National is somewhere else, then it's "too far to drive."  Is it farther from IA to IN than from IN to IA?

I'm sorry to hear you've decided not to renew, but I understand "a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do."
Best wishes and safe journey.

[French Jack]

Bon Voyage and take the sour grapes with you.

[Tjackstephens]

WORKING COWBOY, It's sure a great class. I shot it last Saturday at the Green River Gunslingers. Yes there are a SASS club, but like many of the SASS clubs in this area they allow Working Cowbooy and even Range Det. How about that, these clubs know a good thing when they see it. It was my very first shoot using black powder. A good way to break into the darkside, not a lot of reloading, not a lot of gun cleaning. I even shot two or one handed with the revolver, which ever felt right for the stage. Yes sometimes I like to shoot all four guns, but working cowboy is sure good on a hot day. It's really nice not to have all that equipment to keep up with. Tote a bag with ammo and bag for brass, your revolver in your holster and carry your rifle. Green River has even built a lot of gun stands for the long guns (thanks ro Yak for that). Yes it was fun to shoot the black stuff and alway fun to shoot working cowboy. Tj 

[Irish Dave]

Good to have us back on topic.
Thanks, TJ.

[Tascosa Joe]

I like the idea of the Range Detective Class and the Working Cowboy.  I think I am going to dig out my 38-40 92 Win and my 38-40 SAA as I haven't shot them in years.  I am also thinking about finding a 38-40 New Service or Triple Lock.  I think that would be a great late period toy.

[Smokey Three Toes]

  So to take this off topic, I have not had any problem with NCOWS, so where on earth are you getting that from. If a person can not express something without it being taken as a slam on NCOWS then to darn bad. There are no sore feelings about any of you, or NCOWS, if you look back you will see I gave NCOWS kudos for the Working Cowboy Class which helped me get started in CAS. It was some of you that just plain took it as a slam. My choice to no longer be part of NCOWS is personal, health wise and income wise, and if you can't see that then I feel sorry for each of you guys that took it so personal. If you want to make this personal then send me an e-mail rather than putting it in this open form. Which is in bad taste as far as I am concerned.

  Joss I do not remember you talking to me in 2007, the only people that came up to talk with me that I can remember is Tracy Thorpe, Char Carpenter, Tom Spanton. There were a few others but I am unable to remember their names, I apologizeto you all, there were lots of people there that weekend, I enjoyed it very much.
 
  I am sorry you feel that everytime I am on the forums I complain, but I just like to have clairfication of the rules, most of you, with a few exceptions, at least tried to explain where I was wrong and pointed me in the right direction without getting angry, for that I am greatful.

   NCOWS is a good organization and I hope it continues that way...

[Major 2]

How 'bout a Working Gal class    a Deringer, cigar , 3 shots of Who Hit John and knock down drag out fight over a tow headed dove ....

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Howdy Pards
With the temperature rising the working cowboy is the class for me . I have a set of 1859  saddle bags to throw over my shoulder with ammo . My pistol belt holds  enough cartridges for my pistol ammo requirements . Shoot ,move and communicate . Yes I know it's a Infantry thing  . At the end of the day just put you 2 guns in your vehicle and go home and clean just 2 guns  .

     It don't get no better than that .

[Will Ketchum]

If I had my drutthers I'd have every NCOWS class be 2 gun and seperate the classes by shooting style (1 OR 2 HANDS) and propellant type (black or smokless).  I know it's not going to happen but I can hope

Will Ketchum

[Tjackstephens]

Lot of talk about changing the working cowboy class, type of hold of the revolver, type of powder you use. I like it just the way it is. It's just a lot of fun. Each to their own and it may well be changed someday. I'll still shoot it a lot ever how it turns out. With some of the problems I have, sometimes it's the only way I can still make a shoot. Thanks NCOWS for such a great ideal. Tj