1861 Navy - Uberti

Deadeye Dick · July 11, 2009, 08:08:03 AM

I'm visiting my brother back in Iowa this week and he just purchased an 1861 Navy. We took it out to shoot and the .375 lead balls don't seem to be large enough to stay seated in the cylinder. I've looked for a larger ball at the black powder shops in town and can't find any that are larger, say .380 or so.
I shoot 1860 Army and haven't had this problem with it.
Any of you pard's had this problem and if so what was the solution?
We were trying to shoot 15 grains of Goex with a felt wad in front and a .375 Hornaday ball. I'm afraid of having a gap between the powder and the ball. Also several of the balls fell out of the cylinder or came out far enough to lock the cylinder up.

Deadeye Dick

Fingers McGee · July 11, 2009, 11:46:42 AM

Quick fix is to 'bump' the balls with a hammer to expand them. Permanent solution is to get some .380 balls. Cast your own or order them from a bp supplies house. www.bpstuffllc.com and www.logcabinshop.com sell .380 cast balls at a reasonable price if you're ordering in bulk.

IIRC, 0000 buckshot is .380 diameter too.

My normal '61 Navy loading is 20 gr fffg, lubed wad, and .380 ball. It gets good compression, makes plenty of noise and smoke, and consistently dings the targets in CAS competition.

Doc O · July 11, 2009, 02:10:20 PM

I have 2 Uberti 61's. They do need a bit larger ball, .380 ball.
I mold my own so I don't have to go looking for them when I need them.
What Fingers said would get you by but I would go for the .380 balls.
The 61 navy's are shooters

.
Doc

Fox Creek Kid · July 11, 2009, 03:16:46 PM

Avoid buckshot as it's not pure lead and can easily damage or break a loading lever.

Mako · July 11, 2009, 03:45:20 PM

Dick,
Got in and decided to cool down a bit and saw your question. I have several Uberti .36 caliber pistols. The cylinders appear identical until you do something like maybe try to load them!

I have 4 that have chambers that measure on average Ø.373. These take the Ø.375 balls fine, but the two more have Chambers that run either Ø.377 or Ø.378. These require Ø.380 balls. These were all measured with precision gage pins.

Bumping works sometimes, but usually other loaded balls begin to back out after a few shots. Try it sometime. I may be imaging it but the hotter the day the worse it seems it is. The loose balls also seem to get pulled back by the loading ram which digs into them a bit because the concave portion where it meets the ball is a smaller radius than the radius of the ball. This makes a "sharp" edge that digs in. As the pistols get hot and the lube from either the wad or the over the ball lube gets spread around the chamber mouths and the balls seem to push out worse.

I always like to cut a ring which means I have a small bearing band around the ball instead of just a ring contact patch.

If you're just visiting and you are desperate to shoot there is one more trick to try. Take a few balls and place them on a flat surface. Whack them with a hammer to flatten them a bit. You should be able to upset them to .380 or greater without any problem. The trick now is to load them without having them rotate while doing so.

So I have one more trick to try. You said you have felt wads, so remove your cylinder charge all 5 or 6 chambers (if you are just shooting it the '61 has those nifty safety pegs Sam thoughtfully gave us) and then seat a wad over each. Take the balls you whacked with the hammer and place them on a flat board. Turn the cylinder upside down and line up the balls with the chambers . Take another board and place it over the rear of the cylinder and tap the backside of the board until the cylinder goes down to the bottom board. Now put your cylinder back in the pistol and seat them fully. This should get them started square to the larger diameters you mashed them to.

Like I said only do this if you are desperate and can't find balls. Something similar happened to me once. A friend had a "Texas" Paterson (with loading lever) he had just bought with two boxes of Ø.375 balls and he was planning on me showing him how to use it. We had gone to their vacation home with family and were miles from anywhere. You guessed it, balls fell out. We played around trying to smash them and having mixed results, when his uncle spoke up and said they used to use "patches" with those guns. I knew that wasn't true, but it gave me an idea. We had cleaning patches but they were too thick. I lamented we needed something like fine silk. He said "wait a minute" went back to the house and came back with a silk scarf I later learned he purloined from his wife. We ended up using it. It was hard to seat those balls even with that very thin scarf, later we learned the bore lube made it an easier fit. We cut that scarf into bits and had a blast. All of the kids shot it and his uncle was proudly proclaiming he knew that was the correct way all along.

I didn't mention this technique first because I understand that was an extremely expensive scarf and it took quite a bit of "bribery" to finally calm her down. No man should go there...

~Mako

Flint · July 11, 2009, 06:55:14 PM

I also went to .380 balls, as I have quite a few cylinders, and they vary a bit. I found there was a difference between Hornady and Speer in .375, the Speer balls are rounder and more uniform than the Hornady, which don't seem as round. As a result, if your chambers are on the large side, the Speer is more likely to work better, if the cylinder will take 375 balls at all.

Pettifogger · July 12, 2009, 05:40:53 PM

Picked up a pair of Pietta 61 Navies at EOT. The chambers on these average .367".

Flint · July 12, 2009, 07:01:11 PM

I noticed, reflecting on Pettifogger's comment, that the Uberti 36 chambers are larger than the Piettas, and I think, the 44's are as well. A 451 ball works OK in a Pietta, but will roll back out of an Uberti's cylinder. An Uberti Army works better with a 454, and I have a few Uberti cylinders that need a 457 ball. An Uberti Navy cylinder prefers 380 balls.

Deadeye Dick · July 14, 2009, 08:16:31 AM

Thanks to all of you who responded. We just got back from a side trip to Omaha to visit relatives. I will see if there are any .380 balls available in the Quad City area. I know one of my old 36 cal cap and ball revolvers used .375 balls and they worked fine. Hopefully I can find some .380 balls before I return to Oregon on Friday. If not we may try flattening the .375 balls just to shoot a couple cylinders through it. Also I think I will go to the 20 grains of fffg so that I can get adequate compression.
Thanks again pard's!
Deadeye Dick

Deadeye Dick · July 14, 2009, 11:23:04 AM

Decided not to use the scarf mentioned by Mako. Have to keep peace in my brother's household. We did order some .380 round balls and a 20 grain spout from one of the websites mentioned by Fingers. Got them coming by overnight mail so should be able to shoot them on Thursday before I leave. All smiles now.

Deadeye Dick

Mako · July 14, 2009, 10:41:03 PM

Quote from: Deadeye Dick on July 14, 2009, 11:23:04 AM
Decided not to use the scarf mentioned by Mako. Have to keep peace in my brother's household...
Deadeye Dick

The sign of a wise man.

Fingers McGee · July 15, 2009, 10:16:48 AM

Quote from: Deadeye Dick on July 14, 2009, 11:23:04 AM
Decided not to use the scarf mentioned by Mako. Have to keep peace in my brother's household. We did order some .380 round balls and a 20 grain spout from one of the websites mentioned by Fingers. Got them coming by overnight mail so should be able to shoot them on Thursday before I leave. All smiles now.

Deadeye Dick

I think you'll be happy with it. Let us know how they work.

FM

Deadeye Dick · July 16, 2009, 08:09:49 PM

Shot the 1861 Navy today. Gee does it shoot good. We used the .380 balls over 20 grains of 3f and a wonder lube wad over the powder. Very tight group. No problems. Didn't even have to cut up a silk scarf. I do prefer loading the .44 1860 Army though. My fingers seem to get in the way with the .36.
Thanks to all of you for your input.
Deadeye Dick

Mako · July 16, 2009, 10:54:02 PM

Quote from: Deadeye Dick on July 16, 2009, 08:09:49 PM
Shot the 61 Navy today. Gee does it shoot good. We used the .380 balls over 20 grains of 3f and a wonder lube wad over the powder. Very tight group. No problems. Didn't even have to cut up a silk scarf. I do prefer loading the 44 Army though. My fingers seem to get in the way with the 36.
Thanks to all of you for your input.
Deadeye Dick

Glad it worked out Deadeye, and even happier prudence won out...

Mine are nice too, more accurate than my '60s. I will shoot them again when I get this 130 gr bullet worked out. I'm on the 4th iteration. They work fine in the '61s because of the massive clearance, work in my Uberti '51s and one Leech and Rigdon. Still won't fit in one of the Leech and Rigdons unless I whack it with something and no joy in the Pietta. Gonna work on that next week again. I can make 125 with a big lube groove no seat, those last 5 grains are laughing at me...

Mako