Issue with new USFA 12/22

[Marshal Deadwood]

Does Colt offer the early 'bp' frame ?

MD

[Recon]

Does Colt offer the early 'bp' frame ?

MD

They do.  Or at least they did one year ago.

[J.D. Yellowhammer]

If you can get yer hands on the latest issue of the Shootist (NCOWS mag), there's a couple of articles about Colt's reissue of the .44 WCF (bp frame) "Frontier Six Shooter."  It was a limited production gun with a high price tag, so you'd think there was special care taken in its manufacture. The writer of the article I read had to send his back: trigger guard poorly fitted to frame, end shake, radial play in the base pins, chambers too tight to even be loaded, etc. 

[Appalachian Ed]

Does Colt offer the early 'bp' frame ?

MD

I own a pair of New Colt BP frame in 45LC and I have to say quality is Top Shelf. Action on both are better than either of my Pre-War USFA. The ONLY thing I do not like about the new Colts is the grips are WAY too thick.

People on this board like to beat up on Colt, and they deserved it for the quality of the early 3rd Gen. guns. But as an owner of both USFA and several newer Colts, I can say USFA does not have an edge anymore over Colt on quality or fit.

-Ed

[Recon]

I can't speak about the USFA, but my Colt (which sucks) is a very recent 3rd model, as is that of another guy on the Colt board who has the same problems.  So it's not just early 3rd.

[Marshal Deadwood]

Two new Colts I've been ,,ahem,,priviledge to handle in the last year,,are hedious. Pietta wouldnt subcontract selling such junk.

One, nickle plated SAA, had an action that felt like towing a wash machine down a gravel road.

Second,,once the ejector rod housing was removed, the barrel could be removed by HAND. I need to check with my gunsmith friend to see 'what else' that deal had wrong with it.

These were NEW RECENT Colts.

You really lucked out if you bought colts that you could be proud of in public. Count your blessings.

I'd LOVE to see COLT be what USFA is,,,I'd get one. The 'pony' does have 'some' attraction for me,,just not enough to buy a revolver worse than the cheapest imported ones.

All in all, Cattleman revolvers are really a super buy... with a little TLC, they are a fine revolver themselves. New springs and a hardned screw kit,,smoothed out some,,presto,,fine revolver that will ride the river. They come from the factory better t han the colts iv seen.

MD

[Major 2]

Not wanting to chime in to "beat up on Colt" but unless we do , I'm afraid Colt won't take notice.

The are two 3 Gens sitting (languishing) at a local FFL 's Store.
both are 7 1/2" in 45 Caliber..one is nickel the other blue.

The nickel gun has walnut grips that stand easily 3/16" (perhaps more) proud of the Wine Glass and a visible gap the thickness of a credit card. In a word CRAPLY fitted
there is a Scratch approx. 1" long that runs from the patent dates to the trigger screw, has been or was nickel over.
This is a NIB 3 Gen. and offered a discount $ 1299.99.

The second gun has very nice Case hard colors... It has standard Hard Rubber grips that overhang ever so slightly, both at the bottom and just behind the wine glass but other wise tight fitting.
It has a drag ring, maybe an issue or may be careless handling, this I don't know.
The front sight however is slightly canted to the left (it is supposed to be unfired ) so I don't know if it was twisted for POA. I could see the hammer was set closer to one side than the other, that did not look right.
It is also priced at $1300....I did not thumb through the action of either out of respect to the Store manager.
But I would have liked to, just to compare.
They have been there sometime...may still be ,but they are not listed on his Website .

[Capt. John Fitzgerald]

"Wine glass."  I like that!  Sounds a lot classier than the commonly used terms, "shovel" or "spoon."

[drjdog5150]

Range update:

So, I still haven't heard back from Gary...said screw it I will deal with these issue and at least go shoot it, figured that would make it easier to deal with.  Put 36 rounds through at 15 yards and it made a nice tight grouping but it was about 12" high and 7" to the right.  Just to make sure it wasn't me, pulled out my Colt Frontier Scout 62' shot 24 rounds into a 50 cent size bullzeye. 

Go figure this thing (12/22) is a hunk of junk, fit n' finnish is worse then my $300 SAA's and to boot shoots like junk.  I have decided I need to reach the owner of USFA and point out my problems and hope he will offer to take mine back and just make me a new one. 

Sorry to be so negitive just have been dreaming of owning one of these since I first heard of it and am feeling let down.

[J.D. Yellowhammer]

I'm sorry to hear your range report, drjdog.  I think USFA ought to get you a new one.  If you ever get Gary on the phone, he'll probably be very reasonable about that. 

Update on my issue:  I actually got a phone call from USFA a couple of days ago(!).  The smith who's working on my guns apologized for taking so long, said he was in a head-on collision 4 months ago and is only now getting back to work.  Which would explain a lot about the time taken to repair our guns. But as my wife pointed out: "why didn't they tell you that 3 or 4  months ago?"

Unfortunately, there are still issues with the guns.  It seems that .44-40 brass has a pretty wide range of rim thicknesses.  My starline shells are on the thin size, and the guns headspace at .011 or .012, which is out of spec. But WW brass with thicker rims headspaces right....  So the quest for a solution continues....

[Capt. John Fitzgerald]

Things can't be all that bad, Drjdog!  You just put the gun up for sale on the USFA web site forum ( http://forum.usfirearms.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=207) and here is what you posted in response to an inquiry;

"It just came back from USFA, had some fit issues, they assured me its 100% perfect. It is the 4 5/8" barrel. I recently tested it at the range and it functioned flawlessly."

[J.D. Yellowhammer]

here is what you posted in response to an inquiry;

"It just came back from USFA, had some fit issues, they assured me its 100% perfect. It is the 4 5/8" barrel. I recently tested it at the range and it functioned flawlessly."

  hmmm....

[Pettifogger]

Unfortunately, there are still issues with the guns.  It seems that .44-40 brass has a pretty wide range of rim thicknesses.  My starline shells are on the thin size, and the guns headspace at .011 or .012, which is out of spec. But WW brass with thicker rims headspaces right....  So the quest for a solution continues....

Actually, it sounds like the solution has been found.  Use Winchester brass!!!  .44-40 guns and brass vary all over the place.  If one brand of brass is to thin and one is just right it is mechanically impossible to get your gun to work with both.  I have several guns that won't work with Remington brass and have some guns that will shoot fine with .429 bullets but that ammo won't chamber in others.  Have to use .427 bullets in those.  Once you find a combo that works in your guns stick with it.

[Recon]

Things can't be all that bad, Drjdog!  You just put the gun up for sale on the USFA web site forum ( http://forum.usfirearms.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=207) and here is what you posted in response to an inquiry;

"It just came back from USFA, had some fit issues, they assured me its 100% perfect. It is the 4 5/8" barrel. I recently tested it at the range and it functioned flawlessly."

Therein lies the dilemma.  Colt defenders tried to get me to just sell my Colt if I didn't like it, but how could I do that, get my money back, and still be honorable about the sale?  I felt like I'd have to spill all the beans and cut my own throat on the sale.  I chose to eat it.

In defense of  Drjdog, I'd say things could still be all that bad.  He confessed to the fit issues, and it may function flawlessly while still being inaccurate as hell.  Function generally goes to the action, not accuracy.  In this light, maybe all those guys out there who defend USFA to the Nth degree should just go ahead and snag this great deal.  

Defenders can't have it both ways.  USFA should return the damn phone call, step up to the plate and make this man whole so he is not placed in this untenable situation.  If the gun is screwed up, we should not be shifting any burdens back on the buyer.  If USFA says it is 100%, then that is all that is being represented.  If the seller was satisfied with the gun, he wouldn't be selling it.  Must he disclose his personal, subjective reservations?  Let USFA stand behind their statement.  Ah, but the won't back a second hand gun, will they?  Hmmm?

By the way, if the inside left grip panel is as bad as it looks in the photo, right where it meets the front grip strap, then that is the worst fit I've ever seen.  

[J.D. Yellowhammer]

Actually, it sounds like the solution has been found.  Use Winchester brass!!!  .44-40 guns and brass vary all over the place.  If one brand of brass is to thin and one is just right it is mechanically impossible to get your gun to work with both.  I have several guns that won't work with Remington brass and have some guns that will shoot fine with .429 bullets but that ammo won't chamber in others.  Have to use .427 bullets in those.  Once you find a combo that works in your guns stick with it.

Yeah, that's a solution, but it means that I have to start from zero and buy WW brass, since all the brass I have is Starline.  And if I use the Starline for my '73, I have to keep it sorted and away from the revolvers.  That's manageable, for sure, but it's kinda a PIA (and expensive) to have to deal with.

Bottom line, I'll just be grateful to get my Rodeos back.

And you're right, Recon, it's a real dilemma when you get a dog of a gun. Do you sell it to an unsuspecting, maybe less experienced shooter?  I still think Drjdog needs to talk to Gary at USFA. If he emailed Gary the pics he posted, I'm sure USFA would do something to make it right.

[Deadeye Don]

I think Drjdog has done everything he can do to deal with USFA.  The gun still isnt right.  He just needs to ask for an  exchange or refund.   Selling his dog of a gun to somebody else without full disclosure is purely dishonest and not the "cowboy way".

[drjdog5150]

You guys are right...I don't know what to do, kinda figured I was being in the "grey" about it, and I'm not really confortable with doing so.   It does function 100% like I stated and Gary and the gun smith told me its perfect...but I can't seem to get any more responces from Gary or anyone for that matter at USFA and maybe the fact that I'm asking $400 less then I paid might be a fair deal   If anyone has some form of contact that I don't I would be greatfull.  I definatly don't want to wrong anyone like I have been done.  I just posted it because I don't know what else to do...this stinks!

Jason

[drjdog5150]

I think this is a better way to do this...let me know if this is more appropriate.

http://forum.usfirearms.com/topic.asp?whichpage=1&TOPIC_ID=207Ƥ

[Capt. John Fitzgerald]

I think that is the perfect way to present it!  Thanks Drjdog, you've restored my faith in humanity (so to speak).

[Recon]

I think this is a better way to do this...let me know if this is more appropriate.

http://forum.usfirearms.com/topic.asp?whichpage=1&TOPIC_ID=207Ƥ

That is more appropriate, but you should also point out in that thread what you said here: It's $400.00 less than what you paid, which should have been a heads-up to anyone.  In other words, to the extent anyone here thought you were being less than honest before, that is not true; the price reflects the facts.  If anyone got a prefect gun for $400.00 off, would *their* integrity be questioned here, for taking advantage of the seller?  I think not.