Staff Officer weapons

[Capt. Montgomery Little]

Just noted the Staff Officer catagory on the 2009 Grand Muster registration form and was wanting a clarification on weapons used in competition. I was probably sleeping when this one came in and missed it.

[Dr. Bob]

Capt. L.,

As listed in the GAF Class structure and Battle Rifle Thread:

[Not an exact quote]  1 Milspec revolver or revolver documented for military use during the Victorian period. 

It does not have to be US Army milspec.

Sgt. Drydock or Col. Pitsptr can probably be more specific.

[Capt. Montgomery Little]

Thanks Dr. Bob.  I was beginning to think that the info was somewhere "out there" but everyone had forgotten where. I shall check it out.
Have a wonderfull  Independence Day weekend.

[Drydock]

7-Staff Officer- Handgun only, Milspec or of documented Military use in the Victorian era.  No loading aids.


Note that it says "Handgun" not revolver.

[Grapeshot]

7-Staff Officer- Handgun only, Milspec or of documented Military use in the Victorian era.  No loading aids.


Note that it says "Handgun" not revolver.

So, what you're saying is a Remington .50 caliber single shot rolling block pistol or C-96 Broomhandle Mauser are acceptable?

[Drydock]

Yes.  Though you need to try to match your gear to the weapon.  The .50 RB was a Naval issue handgun, so you would be a sailor.  The C96 was issued by very few armys (the largest being China I believe) but many european officers private purchased them, the most well known being a young Winston Churchill.

Before you go running around to find that C96, be aware that because of its design, we allow a c96 user ONE stripper clip,  After the first reload (and Staff Officer will require multiple reloads because you engage all targets with your handgun) it is VERY slow going.  But great fun I'm told.

[Hunter]

Staff officer's weapons??? Too many chiefs and not enough Indians......

[Trailrider]

Yes.  Though you need to try to match your gear to the weapon.  The .50 RB was a Naval issue handgun, so you would be a sailor.  The C96 was issued by very few armys (the largest being China I believe) but many european officers private purchased them, the most well known being a young Winston Churchill.

Before you go running around to find that C96, be aware that because of its design, we allow a c96 user ONE stripper clip,  After the first reload (and Staff Officer will require multiple reloads because you engage all targets with your handgun) it is VERY slow going.  But great fun I'm told.

Some U.S. officers private-purchased these for use in the Phillipines during the Insurrection.  The father of a colonel who served with my Dad in WWII carried one in the Phills possibly as late as 1930.  The father purchased the C96 from von Lengerke & Detmold, probably sometime after 1902 (it is a large-ring hammer model).  The gun came to me when I bought it from my Dad's friend's widow.  No leather or wooden stock with it, but I've made a reasonable copy of the leather holsters manufactured at the Maestranza de Manilla arsenal, as pictured in Meadows' book. Full flap, butt-rear carry.

Incidentally, my Dad's friend's grandfather was maimed at 2nd Bull Run, losing both legs below the knees.  He went to work in the Ordnance Office in Washington, D.C.  On the night Lincoln was shot, James Tanner (the grandfather) was attending the theater across  from Ford's Theater.  An announcement was made that Lincoln had been shot, and the other theater was evacuated.  Tanner went to his room in a boarding house across the street.  The Ordnance Dept. lieutenant with whom Tanner had been attending the theater stayed in the street talking with someone.  Someone came running out of the boarding house, went up to the LT., asking if he could or knew someone who could take shorthand.  The LT told the person to go to the third floor of the boarding house from which the gent had just come, and get ahold of Jim Tanner.  This was done, and Tanner was ushered into the room where Abraham Lincoln lay dying.  Everything we know about the Lincoln Death Scene is as a result of Tanner's shorthand, which he later transcribed.  The only thing he didn't get was after Sec'y of War Stanton said, "Now he belongs to the ages." after Lincoln died.  A chaplain offered a prayer, but Tanner's pencil broke and he didn't have another!    This account has been verified by newspaper articles describing the events.

James Tanner's son, was the one who originally owned the C96.

[Capt. Montgomery Little]

Drydock,  Is the caliber of real importance?  Have signed up for Staff Officer but revolvers are all 44WCF. May have to bring along a rifle and shoot Scout to be correct.

[Drydock]

Someday it would be nice to have enough numbers to limit the calibers in the milspec classes to Milspec, but as you see in the regulations, exemptions will indeed be granted.  And of course many officers private purchased their sidearms in a variety of calibers.   Staff officer may be the most wide open class as regards to weapons and calibers.  The only caveat: NON MILSPEC weapons must have a bore diameter of .357 or greater.  Other than that, I can't think of a handgun or caliber from the Victorian era that you could not use

In .44WCF,  If you're talking about a SAA, then its fine for Staff Officer.  As would a Colt New Service, (1899) or one of the Rare S&W top breaks of the era in .44 WCF, both SA and DA.  As would the Repro #3s out now.  And thats just the US designed weapons . . .

[Drydock]

Just to clarify some queries I've recieved: Some common solid frame American DA revolvers that can be used by the GAF.

-Colt- New Service (1899)
      - "41" frame (1889)
-S&W-"I" frame, rather rare (1896)
        -"K" frame (1898)

It shall be understood that these are required to have light/standard barrels and unshrouded ejector rods. Blued with Military length barrels, no snubbies, no stainless.  CAVEAT!  Must be related in period to the rifle used.  IE if you shoot a Spencer, then you would not carry a K frame S&W. 

The S&W "N" frame dates to 1908, and thus is not allowed.

[Dr. Bob]

So, a S & W Double Action 44 in 44 Russian would be OK??

[Drydock]

If you refer to the top break DA model, then yes, absolutely.

[Dr. Bob]

   That would be the one!

[Capt. Montgomery Little]

OK, with that settled, I have another question. At what range will rifle targets be set at the Muster?  If I have to shoot the revolver at these ranges also, I better start practicing. Sure wish I could use my Ruger Bisley as 300 yds is no problem with it. However, pinched frame SAAs are quite a different story.
No matter, I expect to have a great time anyhooo!

[Drydock]

Typical CAS ranges,  around 50 feet I believe.

[Pitspitr]

(Bvt.) Col. and Capt. Little,
Our rifle targets tend to be a little further out than typical SASS rifle distances and one was farther yet, as you know from last year. What we did last year, was that rather than shoot the rifle targets the Staff Officer participant re-shot the pistol taargets untill he had fired the same number of shots as the rest of the participants. Don't know if this would be the way other match directors would do it, but River City John seemed to enjoy the expirience and since he was the only one shooting staff officer, I think that was all that was important. This year I'm expecting at least 3 staff officer shooters.

[Dusty Tagalon]

Last year River City John was the only Staff Officer, with a Cap & Ball, he didn't reload & he shot pistol targets only.

Dusty

[Drydock]

Sounds fine to me.  As always, course of fire for any class is at the match directors discretion.

[Pitspitr]

Yer right Dusty. I realized that later this morning and hadn't had a chance to correct my error yet.