New Guy Here...

[Sgt Major Barber]

Hello and Greetings all from the Oregon Coast.

I have been involved in French and Indian War reenacting for about 5-years and am kinda wanting to expand my interest to some goode olde cowboy stuff.  Have been on the net for about 4 or 5 weeks reading and trying to learn all about the "stuff" that one can accumulate.

Have not yet decided how far into this thing I shall enter, but do want to get a shootin' iron, a lever gun, and probably a coach gun.

Have sort of decided on a New Vaquero in .357 (as I have a couple of modern irons  in that caliber) but for the life of me cannot decide between 5 1/2 or 7 1/2" barrel.  Any advantages to either??? disadvantages???

I will be gettin' the handgun first then on to a lever gun.  Probably a Winchester 94 Trails End also in .357.  I see that I can get enlongated .38s to run through the lever gun and the goode and faire wife can join in shootin' without gettin' rocked by recoil.  I have been shooting a 39" barreled .62 caliber musket with 90 grains of 2F so gettin' rocked is ok with me but the goode and faire wife has expressed more than a passing interest in this cowboy stuff I have been lookin' at...don't know about yer household, but for me that's a good thing as the cash registers start ringing in this new habit I won't have to duck and cover and promise this is the last thing I need.....ya right!!!

So if anybody that has experience with both the 5 1/2 and the 7 1/2" barrels can give me a heads up on what I really would like best (I know...I know...an awsome responsibility)...you know what I mean I hope.  Just some advice would be most appreciated.

Any comments on holsters or my choice of irons, or anything, would be most appreciated.  Oh ya, I will probably be gettin' a cowboy hat and some boots but having lived in Montana for nearly seven years prior to living here on the coast should not be too hard to decide....but any hints or good internet sources for hats and boots would be most appreciated.

Sorry for the long winded intro.  I am retired/disabled, 62 years old with a  17 year old and a nearly 10 year old (mine!) still at home.  The goode and faire wife is nearly 18  years my junior...been with her foor 24 years and this is first time she has shown an interest in one of my vices....gotta run with it!!!  She kinda loathes the black powder thing so this might be a good thing to look into.  Bein' all busted up has kinda limited my time indulging my habits, but do what I can.  Again, don't know how deep I will get into this, but want to get a solid start and not make $$$$$$ mistakes.

Hey, all the best to one and all,
John in Oregon

[Birdgun Quail]

Welcome John in Oregon.  I'm 58-years-old and new here also; shot just two matches so far.  I asked a lot of questions also.

Pistols: Here is why I chose 7.5-inch barrels for my two pistols.  Old eyes.  I can see the sights better on the longer barrels.  Plus, I personally liked the balance better.  They may take a little longer to drag out of the holsters, but I feel I'm more accurate with the longer guns.

Holsters:  I went with one of the custom makers.  Two holsters, belt, and shotgun slide ran me right at $300 and took about three months to receive after I placed my order.  I am convinced that this well made rig willl last me through my CAS career.

Ammo:  I don't reload so I buy my ammo on-line from National Bullet Co. at: http://nationalbullet.com/home.html
I've been pleased with their ammo.  Both my pistols shoot 2.5-inch groups, one inch high from point of aim, at 25 yards.  Not bad I thought.

Got my hat from Miller Hats: http://www.millerhats.com/oldwest_index/oldwestindex.html
Mine is a 6X beaver felt for ~$150.

Buy boots that you don't mind standing in all day.  Sore feet can be a distraction!

Cowboy Action Shooting is a great family sport.  Now all you have to do is just whip out the ol' plastic and go to spending.

[Silver Creek Slim]

Welcome to CAS City!

Like Birdgun Quail said older eyes like a longer sight radius. I like 7.5" tubes because I think I am more accurate with them. I need al the help I can get with pistols. .357/.38 is a good choice since it is readily available and less expensive than .44 or .45 calibers. I would forget about the Win 94 and go with a Win 92. The Win 92 is a much shorter action that .357/.38's work well in. There are alot of new and used ones on the market.
I bought a couple hats from a good CAS City pard. The Fort Frontier shop has great boots. I have two pair. Here is a link for more info.
http://fortfrontier.com/
I picked up my leather second-hand.
Hope this helps.

Slim

[Micheal Fortune]

Welcome to Town OJ,

The best thing to do is find a club and go visit some weekend shoot soon.  Call or email and let them know that you are heading out and interested in getting into the sport.

You will be surprised but they will be happy to let you try their guns during lunch break and after the shoot.  That way you can get a feel for the different guns, barrel lengths and so on.  Try as many as you can before you go spend your hard earned cash.

But you did ask a question here so I scratched my head and this is what I come up with.

The big difference between the 5.5 and the 7.5 is the speed in which it comes in and out of your holster.  The 7.5 is very slow, but if speed don't mean a thing then get the 7.5, they are easier to sight to a point.

That Trails end you are talking about ain't really a good idea.  It's a Winchester 94 and you just can't make it fast, too many moving parts.  For the money it cost you might as well get a Marlin 94 cb (originally built for pistol calibers) which has all the fancy features of the trails end, octagon barrel, beaded front sight, and you can make the Marlin fast.  You might want to hold out for a Winchester 73 or 66, they are only a couple of hundred more.

Happy Trails

[Sgt Major Barber]

Hey.  Thanks for the info you have provided.  Now, my next question borders on which kind of pick up do you like, Ford, Chevy, etc.  Tell me about the Marlin 1894CB vs. the Rossi 92 clones...both look pretty nice and am just wantin' something to "plink" with in the western style...probably no competition on the horizon for now, but who knows...want something that could be tuned up if  needed.  Seems what I read on the 92s that they need tuned up right outta the box but not the 94CBs....  Give me your take on both these rifles....probably either one would be an ok choice...got to get to Wally World and handle the 94CB but don't think they carry the 92s...
Thanks...this is a nice place to visit, read, and learn and folks seem pretty nice and helpful.
I think my closest club is about 40-miles up the coast and I will probably give them a call to see what's up.
Thanks again.
All the best,
John in Oregon

[Silver Creek Slim]

I own: 2 Marlin 94s in .44 Mag and .45 Colt; a Marlin 39A .22 LR; a Marlin 336 in .30-30; a Marlin 1895 in .45-70; a Marlin 19 in 12 ga. Need I say more. I mentioned the Win 92 because you were considering the Win 94. I have never owned or shot a Win 92. The Marlins can be slicked up real nicely. Are you set on getting a brand new rifle? You can get used Marlins in good shape for $400 or less.

Slim

[Marauder]

As folks said, it is always best to visit a match and folks will show your their favorite guns.  And they may have some good deals on used ones as well.

The 92's and Marlin 94's are both nice.  As you mention, many of the 92's - nearly all - needs some work.  The Marlin 94's used to be the king of the hill, but now you have to watch for quality control.  But they are still normally the best "out of the box" rifle.  I would recommend the regular carbine model (I think it is a C) rather than the more expensive Cowboy model.  The carbines can work quite well.  For the 38'357, you will have to cut the spring just a little and trime the magazine follower, then they will hold 10 357 Mag rounds.  Most folks load their 38's a little long for the Marlin as they prefer that - as do some of the 92's.

[Micheal Fortune]

I don't own a Win92, but I have a Win94 and know well their limitations.

I bought a new Marlin 1894cb, not the cbc which is shorter and more expensive.

I slicked it up myself with minimal time and expertise.  This is a job anyone with a 6 grade education and some common sense can do.

You can read about my adventure here:
http://home.bresnan.net/~michealfortune/1894cb.htm

[Sgt Major Barber]

Hey all.  Rifle magazine capacity at this time is not an issue so doing a spring and follower job not needed.  But wondering, would I be better served with a "one size" cartridge like the .45 Colt in either Marlin or a 92 clone versus the .38/.357 or .44 mag/.44 Special that would have differences in cartridge length and possibly having a feed issue?
Hey, thanks,
John in Oregon

[Four-Eyed Buck]

The Marlin or the Rossi would be a good choice. Both will handle either cartridge. If you're worried about the short bit, go ahead and use the .357 cases. My partner uses .357's loaded with 158 SWC's and 4.0g of HP-38 with the Federal mag sp primer, works quite well for him. He likes the Rossi's, myself I like the Marlins. It's kinda the Ford/Chevy bit. Best thing to do is handle both and then pick which feels best to you. the advice above on the '94 Win. is good, especially in the .38/.357 caliber. Most reported problems are with those. I had one, worst gun I ever had the misfortune to have. Welcome and don't hesitate to ask questions..........Buck

[Delmonico]

Folks I'm gonna butt in here and help save the reputation of the 1894 Wichester, the original design as designed by John M. Browning is an exeleant gun, on of the best but Winchester has messed with perfection and made a stupid angle -eject BS modifacation and a BS un-needed safety, and to top it off they cambered it in rounds that John M. did not intend it to be chambered in.  He designed the 1892 for those rounds.  The engineeering Dept. at Winchester should be stood in a corner and made to write on a black boar 100,000 times.  "I will not ever mess with perfection again!"

O by the way pard, I'm the cranky ol' cosie around this part who ain't afraid to state his opinion, especally when engineers do stooopid things like mess with one of my favorite rifles,  the 94 is designed for 30-30 length rounds. 

[tarheel mac]

Boy Del, you sure hit that on the head...1964 will go down in gun circles as the "year Winchester fouled up their entire line..."and although they still make some good stuff, I don't think they have ever really fully recovered from what they did to themselves that year...

[RRio]

Howdy and Wecome, OJ!

Although most of my pistolas are 4 3/4", I'm gettin' to the point where I prefer the 7 1/2". I have a steel triggerguard & backstrap New Dakota .45, 7 1/2" from EMF that is very hard to miss with.

As far as rifles, I have been using Rossi, Navy Arms, LSI Puma, and EMF 92s since I started CAS years ago. Never had any trouble to speak of out of any of them. My favorites right now are a LSI Puma, 24" barrel in .357 mag., and an EMF Saddle Ring Carbine in .45Colt.
The onlyest thing I would caution about the 92s, is they do not like to be short-stroked. Lever them like you mean business and you won't have any problems with them. Also, I have never done an action job on my 92s, I let them smooth out by themselves.

Enjoy your stay here in town!       

[Sgt Major Barber]

Hey Rawhide or anyone else.  I have fired a .44 Mag thru a 16" trapper but don't know how close the recoil from .357 and .45 Colt would compare.  Would you be so kind as to compare the recoil of your .357 against that of the .45 Colt...realizing that one is 24" and the other is carbine.  My main concern is recoil for the goode and faire wife (aka she who must be obeyed).  I had said that she has shown an interest and don't want her to get slapped around while she gets up to speed and more able to handle a nice gunpowder caused jolt.  I am more interested in a 20 barreled carbine...may get the rifle in .45 Colt and handgun in .38/.357 which should negate the issue of different lengths of cartridges....38/.357 mag and .44mag /.44 Special in the rifle.  Maybe I am worrying in advance but in doing some of the reading that I have, it seems most of the lever guns have an issue with different cartridge lengths.
Thanks a bunch,
All the best,
John in Oregon. 

[Four-Eyed Buck]

You have a point, John. Just the basics of the design make them OAL sensitive. for CAS, you're not dealin' with full bore loads to begin with. I don't think a .45Colt CAS round is gonna be anywheres near the recoil of a full bore .44 Mag load. I know my .45's aren't. for rifles, the vel. limit for main match ammo is 1400fps. Revolvers is 1000fps. I use 200g bullets for my Colt ammo with 6.0g of HP-38, which out my guns, runs in the 600-700fps range. Big difference from a full bore .44 Mag..Depending on your wife's size/ability to handle a large bore, I don't think it's much of a problem. My wife is recoil shy and shoots .38's in her guns, but still shoots a 12ga. SxS. She's kinda tiny and doesn't have the forearm strength to handle the larger bores, at least to her thinking. It was mostly her small hands that got us into something of a smaller size/caliber for her hand guns. She uses the Model P jrs( 2/3rds of the frame size of a standard Model P), an 1894CS Marlin carbine in .357( 18 1/2" round barrel) and a 12ga Stoeger( 26" barrels) and does okay with them.......Buck

[litl rooster]

Welcome OregonJohn, am new here and have many questions also. I moved here to Virginny 7 years ago from Montana, when I need a hat I call a hat shop out there. You can't throw a rock without hitting a saddlemaker hat maker or a Horse trainer in Montana. Just glad Woodrow got there before the Bankers and Lawyers. Unlike the rest of these fellas I where lace up boots and buy Whites out of Spokan,Wa.  Good luck with the new vices (hehe)

[RRio]

Hey Rawhide or anyone else.  I have fired a .44 Mag thru a 16" trapper but don't know how close the recoil from .357 and .45 Colt would compare.  Would you be so kind as to compare the recoil of your .357 against that of the .45 Colt...realizing that one is 24" and the other is carbine.  My main concern is recoil for the goode and faire wife (aka she who must be obeyed).  I had said that she has shown an interest and don't want her to get slapped around while she gets up to speed and more able to handle a nice gunpowder caused jolt.  I am more interested in a 20 barreled carbine...may get the rifle in .45 Colt and handgun in .38/.357 which should negate the issue of different lengths of cartridges....38/.357 mag and .44mag /.44 Special in the rifle.  Maybe I am worrying in advance but in doing some of the reading that I have, it seems most of the lever guns have an issue with different cartridge lengths.
Thanks a bunch,
All the best,
John in Oregon. 

Just for the record, if you happen to go with the .44 Mag in your rifle, you will have to shoot lower velocities than the .44 mag for CAS, more around the .44 Special ( which is what I would shoot out of it for CAS) velocity. That is very close to the recoil of a .45 colt out of the '92. Actuall a litlle lighter than the .45 Colt, but in my experiance, a tad more accurate.

Now then, if you want to know about hunting or plinking loads for the .44 mag out of the '92. the recoil from a 20" barrel is just tad more than shooting a .45 Colt out of a '92. Not bad, but enough to let you know it's there.
It's kinda hard to compare it to my 24" .357 magnum, because I shoot FULL load .357s out of it a lot, and for me, it seems the recoil is not that noticible. The .38 specials I use in it for CAS, to me, is like shooting a .22.

But then, I guess I'm weird in a way, 'cause I like to feel some thump. I don't like punishment, but I do want to feel a little thump.

Bet I cleared that up like mud, huh?     

[Cherokee Jem]

 Hey Pards...Im new here also, and really happy I found a place to ask some questions. Im interested in both CAS and Mounted Shooting. I was wondering if barrel size makes a difference in mounted shooting?  I really like my Cimmaron model P, but I havent actually tried to ride and shoot it too. It has a 7.5 barrel, which I think is by far the best looking of the barrel lengths. Just thought I would ask someone who knows more about the sport than me to give me some opinions. Also, what would be the best holster arrangement for mounted shooting? Im getting mixed signals on what to get. Thanks Folks!!!!

Followed the tracks and almost got hit by the train....

Colin

[thehairlessone]

I am new here too. I have always loved westerns and thought it would be so much fun to shoot the guns like that.

I was thinking about buying a pistol just to goof around with then found this site on the net and it got me to thinking.

Then I noticed on here there are some clubs in Kansas so I will have to check them out. I am sure these are some silly questions so bear with me.

I looked at the national bullet company link. You can use their ammo instead of buying it at the gun shop? Sounds like it is a little different ammo than you can buy at the store right? It is also alot cheaper too from the looks of it.

I would like to get a six shooter and start fooling around with it but I dont know where to begin. Which caliber would be a good one? 45? I would like to stay in the lower price range since I am just experimenting so could anyone tell me what I can expect to pay for a decent but reasonably priced one? Which brand? Where to find it, etc?

I have checked one of the local  shops and they seemed pretty expensive there so I need to look around a bit. I also noticed on Bruth Daves website that the pietta sheriff seemed a pretty good looking gun at a good price. I also wouldnt want any blackpowder guns or anything that doesnt take a shell.

Any advice would be appreciated.

rick

[jrdudas]

Hi John from Oregon,

I am also new to CAS and have shot in one orientation session and two matches.  You mentioned that the number of rounds in your rifle is not an issue, but if you plan to shoot in organized matches you generally need 10 rifle rounds in a single stage.  You can use a rifle that holds fewer rounds if you like, but you will have to load additional rounds to complete the stage.

I chose the following guns:

Ruger Blackhawks w/ 6 1/2 " barrels - I shoot in the senior class where adjustable sights are permitted.  Couldn't decide between the 5 1/2" and the 7 1/2" so I compromised.  Also, was lucky enough to find two "old design" Blackhawks while Ruger was beginning to issue the new design.

Marlin 1894CB in .38 Special - Picked this gun because of the positive reviews by other shooters, and chose .38 Special since I do not reload and store bought ammo in this caliber is cheaper than the larger calibers.  Cost does become an issue when you shoot the number of rounds CAS shooters do.

Stoeger Uplander in 12 gauge SxS - Again, chose this gun based on owner's reviews and I wanted a SxS.  Given this decision to make again I would probably hold out for a Winchester 1897 for no particular reason.  THe Stoeger has performed flawlessly but I still like the idea of a "one barrel" shooter.  Lots of folks use the Norinco clone of the Winnie 97, but I prefer a longer barrel and the Norinco's only come in 20" I believe.

Most folks recommend that you use the same caliber for your pistols and your rifle for simplicity sake.

Join in and have some fun,

JR