The Smokeless ? again

[curdog]

I've been reading the thread on the smokeless debate the past couple of days. I like to shoot BP but sometimes I don't want the extra cleanup of the cases or the bore swabbing during the shooting. The question I have is. Has anyone noticed there head space opening up after shooting smokeless rounds and how many smokeless rounds have you put through? I have only shot about forty rounds through my 76. Thirty rounds of smokeless (5744)  and eleven rounds of BP. I guess I may be stirring the pot, but don't mean it to be that way. I haven't noticed any headspace differance in my gun. I don't have a gauge but use a 45-70 case that doesn't have the rim thinned down for checking my 45-60 headspace. It still won't close up on it. Also does anyone know if Lyman or someone else is doing any lab test with these calibers and smokeless?

[Crazy Horse]

Why can't someone find out what powder and the weight of the charge that Ten X loads their smokless loads with. When I bought my Uberti 50-95 I got 5 boxes of the Ten X smokless 350gr. loads. I have shot only one box through it but they shoot really good.

[Grizzly Adams]

Really not much of a debate anymore, now that we have more field experience with the new replicas.  These rifles are made of modern materials, and are proofed for smokelesss.  Just keep in mind that it is a toggle action,  don't try to turn one of them into some kind magnum, and all's well!

However, I still do not advocate using smokeless in the Original Winchester 1876.  The original was NOT proofed for smokeless powder!

[curdog]

Grizzly I would never try to make it anything like a magnum. I don't even like shooting a 45-70 anymore. I really like the 45-60 with its mild recoil. I do like the big bore on it though and it doesn't have that sharp report like newer rounds. Still I'd like to see someone with lab tests on our lovely ladies.

[Grizzly Adams]

Grizzly I would never try to make it anything like a magnum. I don't even like shooting a 45-70 anymore. I really like the 45-60 with its mild recoil. I do like the big bore on it though and it doesn't have that sharp report like newer rounds. Still I'd like to see someone with lab tests on our lovely ladies.

+1     The 45-60 is my favorite caliber in the 76 because it is so pleasant to shoot.  

As to lab tests on this family of calibers, I suspect that as more of these rifles are placed in circulation that we will begin to see tested data.  The old thread on loading smokeless, contains some nice nuggets of information if your willing to mine for them!

[Crazy Horse]

Anyone know a load with 5744 with a 300 and a 350 grain bullet?

[Grizzly Adams]

Anyone know a load with 5744 with a 300 and a 350 grain bullet?

This has has been posted before, but worth doing again.    FYI, this is an e-mail I recieved in response to my request for smokeless reloading data for the 45-60 and 45-75 calibers.  I think it is a good indication of the "track record" that is being extablished for 5744 in the 1876 chamberings.


"Unfortunately we do not have any specific lab tested data on these calibers.

(See notes 1.1 and 2.1below).

However, we can provide you with some guideline, based on calculations and information from other sources.

Caliber:      .45-60 Winchester (1.89")

Case length:         1.89"

Case Capacity:     ca 4.252cc/65.5grains of H2O

Barrel length:      26"

COL (max):           2.15"

Powder:           Accurate -- 5744.

Bullet weight:   300-325 grains.

Start load: 22.0 grains (1250 – 1350 ft/p/sec)

Maximum load: 26.0 grains (1400 – 1500 Ft/p/sec).

Bullet weight:   350 grains.

Start load: 20.0 grains (1150 – 1250 ft/p/sec)

Maximum load: 24.0 grains (1300 – 1400 Ft/p/sec).

Bullet weight:   400 grains.

Start load: 18.0 grains (1075 – 1175 ft/p/sec)

Maximum load: 22.0 grains (1200 – 1300 Ft/p/sec).

Caliber:      .45-75 Winchester.

Case length:         1.895"

Case capacity:      5.189cc/79.92 grains of water

Pressure level:    <18000 psi.

Barrel length:      28"

Powder:           Accurate -- 5744.

Bullet weight:  300 grains.

Start load: 27.0 grains (1475 – 1575 Ft/p/sec)

Maximum load: 31.0 grains (1650 – 1750 Ft/p/sec)

Bullet weight:  330 grains.

Start load: 24.0 grains (1300 – 1400 Ft/p/sec)

Maximum load: 28.0 grains (1500 – 1600 Ft/p/sec)

Bullet weight:  350 grains.

Start load: 21.0 grains (1100 – 1200 Ft/p/sec)

Maximum load: 25.0 grains (1300 – 1400 Ft/p/sec)

Bullet weight:  400 grains.

Start load: 17.0 grains (900 – 1000 Ft/p/sec)

Maximum load: 21.0 grains (1100 – 1200 Ft/p/sec)



NOTES:

It' important to note that:

Whenever Western Powders Inc do not test, and have actual data, on a particular caliber or caliber/bullet combination, we may in some cases provide some guideline. This information will be based on various procedures and calculations, or from other very reliable sources.

1.        SAFETY is our prime concern therefore:

1.1.   The loading data is conservative, especially regarding the minimum or start load to ensure a safe baseline to work from.

1.2.   The safety margin built into the start load might be more than the customary 10%.

2.        We strongly recommend.

2.1.   To always start at the recommended minimum "START" load.

2.2.   If at all possible, measure the velocity.

2.3.   Contact us again with the velocity data, so that we can verify, and correlate with our calculated/estimated data. The data should also be compared, with the typical velocity levels accepted in the industry, for that particular caliber-bullet weight combination."

The last line is important, as it reinforces what we have been saying in regards to working up safe loads.  Stay within the "typical velocity levels" for the caliber - BP velocities in this case, and verify what your doing with a chrono.

[curdog]

Thanks Grizzly. I seen that one and have been using it to load by.