'51 Navy Snubbie

[Hard Mouth]

Howdy all,

I'll be offerin' thanks in advance for any help you can supply. Recently got a '51 Navy offa Gunbroker, barrel cut down nicely to 3", crowned and front sight. Maker's mark lost with extra 5" (unknown..) .44, brass frame (yes, I know, didn't exist, but here it is...) Italian proofed 1975. Seems to be tight. Ordered Tresos for it, hope it uses 6x75s. Action seems to be workin' fine, smooth enough (NO SNAPPIN"), but making a new ring around the cylinder.

Thing is, this is the onliest Colt C&B clone I've ever experienced. Got some '58 Rems, and various others, but the idea of pulling the barrel off to clean is wierd. Went to the Darksider's Den, read Noz's articles on smoothin' the Pietta '51 Navy, (which had lots of good info even if this isn't one), but it only touched on the mysterious wedge function and such.

The wedge on this one comes close, but does not protrude from the right side of the frame. Should it? What's the screw sposed ta do? Do I need a tool to deal with this?

Can somebody point me in the right direction for  a Web page? Thought of Cap'n Baylor, but couldn't find it. Anything on operation, care and maintenance would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Hard Mouth

[RollingThunder]

While it's true that it didn't exist in mass production, but Sam Colt did indeed make one. And pictures and office documentation exist to prove the fact.

[Frenchie]

The wedge on this one comes close, but does not protrude from the right side of the frame. Should it? What's the screw sposed ta do? Do I need a tool to deal with this?

No problem if the wedge doesn't protrude beyond the right side surface. Its purpose is to hold the barrel assembly firmly to the frame - as long as it does that, no worries. You should be able to tap it out with a small tool, or pry it out from the other side. Do this gently, you shouldn't need a lot of force.

The screw on the left side is supposed to meet the head of a rivet that holds the wedge spring in place. This keeps the wedge from falling out and getting lost in the long grass. If the screw head has a flat side, turn it so that side is down and you should be able to remove the wedge, but normally this isn't necessary. If there's no flat side, the screw will probably need to be removed to remove the wedge. Do this carefully, of course, and only if needed.

Putting the wedge back in is also done gently, with the thumb, and then a light tap or two with a screwdriver handle or something similar. I've seen frames ruined when some gorilla with a hammer decided the wedge wasn't in far enough.  

Anyway, to remove the barrel assembly, just pop out the wedge and let it dangle from the left side, and gently but firmly pull and twist the barrel assembly until it comes off the frame. To reassemble, make sure the wedge is hanging down and slide the barrel assembly onto the cylinder arbor until it seats over the two pins, tap it with your hand, shove in the wedge with your thumb, and tap it gently. Make sure it's in firmly, not tightly, and go from there.

[Hard Mouth]

Thanks Frenchie,

I b'lieve I'm getttin' the drift. no flat side on the screw, so I'll ease it on off.  Wedge sticks out mebbe 1/2"on the left side. Pop it with a brass drift pin. Twist and Shout on the barrel,  then clean, polish and lube, and reassemble. Is there a way to know when the wedge is proper, or does it just "fit right"? Seems there's a spring tab, is it like a phone -cord tab, just to  secure it?

Sad to seem like such a weenie, but the Remmies are so much easier. Look forward to shootin' it, tho. Don't expect much accuracy with such a short barrel,  but it's a way cool lookin' belly gun......

Hard Mouth

[Mako]

Hard Mouth,
Tap your wedge in just until the flat springspring hook (which is part of the wedge assembly) just clears the edge of the slot in the barrel.  The spring is meant to retain the wedge, in both the engaged and disengaged positions.

I saw what you wrote to Frenchie, but the screw can be turned all of the way in.  Go ahead and snug it up against the barrel.  That screw is the most mystifying thing on a Colt. You will note the "hook" on the spring will run up against the screw when you have pushed that wedge back out to pull the barrel off.  It simply keeps the wedge from falling out of the barrel when it is off and getting lost.  Frenchie mentioned a flat on the screw, that is more common on later models such as the model '72 Open Tops and some of the Conversion Models.  On an Italian copy it could show up on almost any model.  Sometimes I think they choose features to include on a model based on their mood or how their local football team is doing.

The deeper you drive that wedge the closer you will make that cylinder gap.  Keep it loose, like I said go with the least amount of engagement that clears the spring hook.  If the wedge is worn it can be pushed in further, but only do that if it is "finger wiggling loose."  You don't want a tight cylinder gap, just barely tap that wedge in.


Colt style pistols really aren't hard, there are just a couple of things like the wedge and that screw that looks like it should be holding something tight that have to be learned.  It's really not "Rocket Surgery..."

Get a small block of wood to tap, or push the wedge in or out.  Try just pushing instead of hammer, seriously these things don't have to be wedged tight, just snug.

Regards,
Mako

[Wills Point Pete]

 You will have fun with that short tube. One of my favorite things is to slip a BP load into a Model 60 or a Ruger SP101. Although I now only use a rather old and battered Mod 60 since my son in law threw my fairly new Ruger away from him, thinking that it exploded. Real black and a short barrel are just flat out fun.

[RollingThunder]

So a little gap between the cylinder and the barrel is alright then, Mako ... enquiring newbs wanna know. 

[Mako]

So a little gap between the cylinder and the barrel is alright then, Mako ... enquiring newbs wanna know. 

Oh yeah... you want what would appear to almost be a huge gap to keep that pistol running an entire match.  You probably need twice the gap you do with a smokeless revolver.  Don't worry, it just makes the pictures look cooler...

Seriously though, gas doesn't like to change direction and the majority will follow the bullet down the barrel.  I've never tried to quantify the difference of the gas halo at different gaps with my pistols, but just speaking subjectively I never noticed a big difference.  I do notice the difference in how long they will take to bind up at different gaps though.  I had one that was so tight (it wasn't square between the cylinder and barrel) that I had to square the forcing cone face up.  I was a bit concerned because it opened the gap up, but to tell you the truth I don't know if I could tell you the difference between it and it's mate while firing.  I shoot gunfighter style and you would think I would notice a difference between the left and right pistols if there was an appreciable difference.  I couldn't tell you the measured gap difference off of the top of my head, but it is definitely noticeable with the naked eye.

I know of one gunsmith that likes to modify the wedge to have it set as far in as it will go to keep a consistent gap.  He modifies the wedge to allow it to go deeper an bottom out on the screw.  I think he even adds a different screw on some.  I know he suggested using the '72 style wedge with the retaining screw on percussion revolvers and  pushing the wedge to bottom out on the screw head.  I'd rather not do that.  In fact on my '72 Open Tops and Conversion pistols after I push the wedge in I turn the screw to block the wedge and tap the wedge back against the screw to set a consistent gap.

Just barely engage that wedge.  It will give you years of adjustment capability and it will give you the reliability you need.  Don't be afraid of too large of a gap on a percussion revolver.  I think too big of a cylinder gap and Percussion Revolvers are probably mutually exclusive terms.

~Mako

[RollingThunder]

Very cool info. Thanks for sharing!

[Deadguy]

How about some pictures?  Everyone loves to see gun pics, especially those of others' custom projects!  I'm sure that I'm not the only person who wants to see this snubbie!

[Fox Creek Kid]

...Seriously though, gas doesn't like to change direction...

Come visit me on a Wed. morning after Taco Tuesday & I'll disprove that theory!! 

[Mako]

Come visit me on a Wed. morning after Taco Tuesday & I'll disprove that theory!! 

Actually I think it would be a practical demonstration of the phenomenon, as well as showing the most direct path away from the source by any individuals around you at the time...

[RollingThunder]

Black powder and methane, when coupled with a source of ignition, leads to charred britches.