Nipples and shoulders

RollingThunder · June 10, 2009, 09:15:29 PM

Any recommendation replacing the No. 10 nipples on my ASM 1851 Colt Navy? I noticed one of the shoulders had what appears to be a crack in it, and sure enough, it popped off of there.

So I figured if I need to replace, I may as well upgrade if possible. Thoughts?

Flint · June 10, 2009, 09:44:56 PM

You want Treso or Ampco nipples, for the Pietta repros, the thread is 6mm X .75.

RollingThunder · June 10, 2009, 09:52:11 PM

How about Armi San Marcos. I heard they're exact replacements for the '51 Navy.

Mako · June 10, 2009, 10:08:34 PM

Quote from: Flint on June 10, 2009, 09:44:56 PM
You want Treso or Ampco nipples, for the Pietta repros, the thread is 6mm X .75.

Flint,
He has an ASM, I think it should be a 12-28. I have an ASM 1851 I bought a long time ago and it uses 12-28s.

I think he needs the Treso 11-50-16 nipple.

RT,
Call the Possibles Shop tomorrow and tell them what you have, I'm pretty sure it's a 12-28, but double check to make sure. They will allow you to return them if they are a metric thread, just don't bugger them up.

Get a nipple wrench to remove them, the possibles shop has those as well. You'll really like the Treso nipples, most people who are really serious about their C&B revolvers or any percussion gun has them installed.

Regards,
Mako

RollingThunder · June 10, 2009, 11:06:31 PM

Thanks Mako! I'll do that.

And thanks for the head's up on the possibles shop too!

Flint · June 11, 2009, 02:27:02 AM

If it's an ASM, the nipples may well be 12-28, as they made some of the cylinders for the 3rd gen Sig Series Colts, and had to match the Uberti cylinders.

I didn't recall ASM making a 44 caliber 51 Navy.

Mako · June 11, 2009, 09:05:03 AM

Quote from: Flint on June 11, 2009, 02:27:02 AM

I didn't recall ASM making a 44 caliber 51 Navy.

Am I missing some of the posts?

~Mako

RollingThunder · June 11, 2009, 09:42:14 AM

Nope. Its an Armi San Marcos '51 Colt Navy, alright, says so right there on the barrel. Made in 1994. Bought unfired in 2009.

Deadeye Dick · June 11, 2009, 10:01:17 AM

Quote from: Mako on June 11, 2009, 09:05:03 AM

Am I missing some of the posts?

~Mako

I think Mako is referring to 44 cal. or if he's not I am.

RollingThunder · June 11, 2009, 10:55:38 AM

According to the Blue Book of Modern Black Powder Firearms, Armi San Marco made them in both .36 and .44 cal.

Colt only made production models in .36 cal.

Only one verified .44 cal 1851 Colt Navy from Samuel Colt's personal collection exists that I have come across, and it was verified by markings and office inventory.

Sorry, I should have been more detailed, as I am sure the nipples on a .36 are likely different from those on a .44.

Apologies!

Deadeye Dick · June 11, 2009, 11:14:47 AM

No need to apologize. in your original post you had not stated it was of 44 cal. and Flint did. I and Mako (I think) was wondering where Flint came up with the 44 cal. description.
We are not debating that Armi San Marco didn't make them in 44 cal.
BTW, nice looking shootin' iron.

Deadeye Dick

Flint · June 11, 2009, 11:18:21 AM

RT, the nipples are not different between a 36 and a 44. The breech of an Army cylinder is the same as a Navy. The nipples are different between the makers, ASM, Uberti, Pietta, etc.

Original Colts were .225-32. Ubertis are 12-28, Rugers are 12-28, Piettas are M6 X .75, and apparently ASM used 12-28. The 2nd and 3rd gen Colts use 12-28, as the cylinders were made by Uberti, and some by ASM (?). I believe very old Ubertis might be found with M6 X .75, before they made the 2nd gen Colts, but I don't recall for sure now.

If you find different nipples between the same makers guns, they would differ between the Paterson, the Pocket Model, the Army/Navy, and the Dragoon/Walker.

Now I don't know where I came up with the 44 caliber either, as it happens, it apparently is. Sorry if it caused confusion.

Mako · June 11, 2009, 02:48:14 PM

Quote from: Deadeye Dick on June 11, 2009, 10:01:17 AM
I think Mako is referring to 44 cal. or if he's not I am.

Yep, I was... I was wondering when the caliber had come up.
~Mako

RollingThunder · June 11, 2009, 06:42:58 PM

I was telepathically transmitting it. LOL.

I called over the the Possibles Shop. He said that he has no way of knowing what is stock on an ASM. So I'm gonna head to the hardware store and pick up a 12-28 bolt and a 6 x .75 mm bolt and see which one fits and then order the proper one.

According to what the man on the phone said, he's had guys with ASMs order both sizes and not return them for the other size, so that would lead one to believe that either people are re-threading their cylinders, or that there are two different nipple thread sizes within the ASM manufacturing schema for the 1851 Colt Navy, and possibly other pistols. When I mentioned that the ASM was meant to be a direct part replacement to the Colts, I think I may have misunderstood his response because he said that it would then be 6 x .75mm. I'm pretty sure I heard that wrong though, because as everyone else has mentioned, the Colts are 12-28s.

Measure twice, cut once, right? Well, I sometimes measure 6 times, and cut halfway, but that's a different story.

Anyway, a side question is that my ASM's current nipples take No. 10 caps really beautifully, but the Treso ones take No. 11 caps. How much of a fit difference is there between the two, and is it likely that my factory ASM nipples should actually be shooting a No. 11 cap instead, and the gentleman behind the counter simply gave me the incorrect caps? They fit snug, and don't fall off until shot.

Thanks for everyone's help, by the way. I appreciate it!

Mako · June 11, 2009, 10:24:00 PM

RT,
Good luck on finding a 12-28 threaded screw... I don't think you'll find one at your local hardware store. The same is true for a 0.75mm pitch 6mm screw.

I'm going to post a link to a previous answer last year about caps sizes, these was specifically about Remington Caps but it can be contrued across other brands. I know I get a bit long winded

so it should probably only be posted once for everyone's sake.

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,22955.msg296702.html#msg296702 it's the 5th reply in the thread.

The short answer is that both will work, you just have to use a push stick to fully seat the #10s on a Treso nipple.

Regards,
Mako

Flint · June 11, 2009, 10:52:54 PM

I have had Rem #10 caps fall off of Treso nipples ..................

Mako · June 11, 2009, 11:54:16 PM

Quote from: Flint on June 11, 2009, 10:52:54 PM
I have had Rem #10 caps fall off of Treso nipples ..................

Flint,
Did #11s stay on? Did you seat the #10s fully on the nipple with a push stick? If you just seated them with a capper I could see that happening. Measure the two caps side by side some time and compare the numbers you get with those in my post from last October. I didn't use calipers, I used pin gages for the IDs and a Micrometer for the ODs and Height. I used a height gage with the cylinder on the surface plate to determine the height difference on each nipple to determine the difference in seating height between #10 and 11s.

~Mako

RollingThunder · June 12, 2009, 06:48:13 AM

Very, very cool info. To seat the No. 10s on there they have to be pushed on. So perhaps the 11s might even be a better fit. I use a capper and a bit of elbow grease to push them on right now. If I don't push them on well enough, I will get a misfire, but the second pass on that cylinder ignites just fine. Sounds like the issue you described with the cap not being fully seated. Might have to push less with the 11s, and have them seat better. So 11s for practice, 10s for competition, with a push stick to be sure they seat. Right?

RollingThunder · June 12, 2009, 07:15:08 PM

Mako. ...I'm seeing 1/4 x 28 locally. What's the difference? Also saw them in Cabela's, along with Red Hot 6 x .75mm.

Heading down by where I purchased this weapon, so maybe they'll have some spare nipples. I'll pack the cylinder and nipple wrench along and be able to check the fit.

Pettifogger · June 12, 2009, 08:21:34 PM

1/4 x 28 and a 12 x 28 ain't nowhere near the same size.