Winchester 94 - A question for lever rifle experts

Frenchie · June 10, 2009, 06:12:49 PM

I've found a really clean and attractive Winchester Model 94 in .30 WCF (.30-30) at an equally attractive price. It appears to have a brass or bronze receiver that's had a darkening treatment. This is an older model without the cross-hammer safety button. The bluing on the steel is at least 99%. If it weren't for the wear to the finish on the receiver, I could believe it's NIB and unfired.

Here's the question: Did Winchester make the original Model 1894 with a brass receiver option? Could I strip the darkening off it and display the brass in its polished glory and still be historically correct? It is, after all, a decorative metal.

Thanks for any help, pards.

Will Ketchum · June 10, 2009, 06:34:11 PM

Frenchie, I don't believe Winchester ever made a bronze or brass 94. What it might be is case hardened which turns kind of silvery over the years. Get the serial number and I'll tell you when it was made.

Will Ketchum

Irish Dave · June 10, 2009, 06:55:35 PM

Guys:

I believe Winchester did make a brass-colored-frame 94 in a brief run a few years back as a commemorative for the 1866 or something. Not positive, but pretty sure.

Will Ketchum · June 10, 2009, 07:17:50 PM

Quote from: Irish Dave on June 10, 2009, 06:55:35 PM

Guys:

I believe Winchester did make a brass-colored-frame 94 in a brief run a few years back as a commemorative for the 1866 or something. Not positive, but pretty sure.

That is true. They were 66 commemoratives with brass plated or at least brass colored frames and octagon barrels in 1966. I lusted after one in those days. Today they remind me of the Big Boy

Will Ketchum

Pancho Peacemaker · June 10, 2009, 08:41:49 PM

I am no "rifle expert" of any kind, but I have seen and handled some commemorative Wincheter 94's which have brass colored receivers. Based on handling these rifles, these are steel receivers that received a plating treatment.

The middle rifle in the picture below is the Winchester 94 "Wells Fargo" commemorative in .30 WCF:

Frenchie · June 10, 2009, 08:45:49 PM

It's too late now to get the serial number, I'll call in the morning for it.

The barrel is round. There are no marks on the wood and the blue is still on the sharp edges. The screws look untouched. It looks brand new except for the wear to the dark finish (brass blackener?) on the receiver.

If it was ever fired, it was meticulously cleaned afterward. The breech face looks like a cartridge has never touched it, and if the original owner told me he'd never fired it, I'd believe him.

The asking price is less than $400.00, does that sound like a good deal to you fellers?

Frenchie · June 10, 2009, 08:51:09 PM

Quote from: Pancho Peacemaker on June 10, 2009, 08:41:49 PMThe middle rifle in the picture below is the Winchester 94 "Wells Fargo" commemorative in .30 WCF:

Pancho, if you put the front sight (without the hood) from the top rifle on the bottom rifle, blued the trigger, and could see a slightly worn dark finish over a brass receiver, you'd have the one I'm looking at.

Add: The butt plate is flat and plastic too.

Ottawa Creek Bill · June 10, 2009, 08:53:30 PM

Guy...

Are you going to use the 94 for NCOWS? I'm not sure if the 30-30 is an approved cartridge....but I'm not sure? I have one of the Wells Fargo 94's that I bought at a yard sale two years ago for $250.00 because my son wanted it.

Bill

Pancho Peacemaker · June 10, 2009, 08:57:33 PM

Quote from: Frenchie on June 10, 2009, 08:51:09 PM
Pancho, if you put the front sight (without the hood) from the top rifle on the bottom rifle, blued the trigger, and could see a slightly worn dark finish over a brass receiver, you'd have the one I'm looking at.

Add: The butt plate is flat and plastic too.

Top rifle is a Winchester 94 in .444
Bottom Rifle is a Browning 92 (gold trigger gives it away) in .44mag

Frenchie · June 10, 2009, 09:00:18 PM

Bill, it's period, BUT it was designed from the git-go for smokeless powder.

From Wikipedia:
The .30-30 Winchester/.30 Winchester Center Fire/7.62x51Rmm cartridge was first marketed in early 1895 for the Winchester Model 1894 lever-action rifle.[2] The .30-30, as it is most commonly known, was America's first small-bore, sporting rifle cartridge designed for smokeless powder. The .30-30 is one of the most common deer cartridges in North America.

I guess it would be a problem for me to shoot full-power rounds. It's relatively low-powered compared to, say, the .308 or .30-06, but still too much oomph for what we do. I must think on this...

Joss House · June 10, 2009, 09:06:25 PM

Frenchie,

Before you plopped down your money, be sure to read NCOWS bylaw 10-3 It mentions the 94s as to what is and what is not NCOWS legal. http://www.ncows.org/Bylaws.htm

Cactus Rope · June 10, 2009, 09:11:25 PM

Quote from: Frenchie on June 10, 2009, 09:00:18 PM
Bill, it's period, BUT it was designed from the git-go for smokeless powder.

From Wikipedia:
The .30-30 Winchester/.30 Winchester Center Fire/7.62x51Rmm cartridge was first marketed in early 1895 for the Winchester Model 1894 lever-action rifle.[2] The .30-30, as it is most commonly known, was America's first small-bore, sporting rifle cartridge designed for smokeless powder. The .30-30 is one of the most common deer cartridges in North America.

I guess it would be a problem for me to shoot full-power rounds. It's relatively low-powered compared to, say, the .308 or .30-06, but still too much oomph for what we do. I must think on this...

Frenchie,

According to my Winchester book by K D Kirkland, the 94, as you state above was made for smokeless rounds therefore that might be the tipoff that it wasn't made with a brass receiver. All pictures indicate this. You might also try this website www.rarewinchesters.com, they have pictures of the 94 and calibers it was manufactured for.

Hope this helps.

Cactus Rope aka Bob little NCOWS #3012

Frenchie · June 10, 2009, 09:18:08 PM

Joss, I just looked it up. Rats. It's still one sweet rifle, though.

Cactus Rope, that's what I figured, the brass coloring must be plating and someone tried to make it black to resemble an original. It's quite a mystery, no? I'll pop over to that Web site presently.

Lone Gunman · June 11, 2009, 09:19:10 AM

It's probably some sort of commemorative, in which case it should have some indication somewhere of what it is commemorating.

I think all of the plated receivers (It would definitely be some sort of plating over a steel receiver...take along a magnet) were gold plated, not brass. The '66 Winchester Centennial was gold plated, even on the inside, and had a plated forend cap & brass butt plate. I think, but am not certain, all the rest of the plated 94's had engraving and/or a medallion in the stock. Neither the Madis or Houze books on Winchester have much to say about commemoratives.

Tascosa Joe · June 11, 2009, 11:52:37 AM

To the best of my knowledge the only 2 brass colored 94 Winchesters were the 1866 Commerative and the Golden Spike Commerative.

Is the receiver sort of a redish brown to maybe a light chocolate color? I have seen more than one old 92 or 94 Winchester that the blue on the receiver turned brown with age. Most times on guns that were real "minty".

French Jack · June 11, 2009, 12:01:16 PM

Of course, our By-laws prohibit the use of commemorative firearms.

Frenchie · June 11, 2009, 10:49:00 PM

No chance to call for the serial number or go look at it again today, but I'm sure it isn't a commemorative. I probably won't be buying it, but I do want to find out more about it.

French Jack · June 12, 2009, 06:37:26 AM

During the 70's and 80's, there were numerous 'special editions' and 'collectable' issues of the Winchester 94 brought out. I suspect that all those kept Winchester afloat for a while, although they did lessen the value of the commemoratives.

WaddWatsonEllis · June 12, 2009, 11:03:59 AM

Before you pruchase this specificall for SASS/CAS competition, please reread the manuals. I believe (I am a newcomer myself) that the manual specifies **pistol** rounds for the rifles used, and does not allow 'low powered' loads of 'rifle' cartridges (i.e., 30-30) .

My hunch is that most of the ranges we shoot at tare pisotl ranges, and that the berm cannot accept the constant insult of rifle cartridges.

True, a 900 fps load would probably do no more damage thatn a pistol cartidge, but who is to tell the powder charge once a cartridge is reloaded?

So, I think as a way of keeping it simple, all rifle cartridges are not normally allowed in competition.

Unless you joined me with the Mauser 98s and Krags and Sharpes on the rifle range under the Wild Bunch competitions.

The purpose of this was meant to explain: I appologize if I seem pedantic or negative.

I just didn't want to see you buy a rifle that would not work for what you wanted.

Ten Wolves Fiveshooter · June 12, 2009, 11:21:52 AM

Howdy Gents

I had a friend that had a 94 Commemorative, it was a 44/40 with 24 1/4" octagon barrel, with an engraved receiver in brass, with a medallion on the right side of the stock, I never cared for this gun, it almost looked like a rifle you would find in a toy store, all the who-ha I think really cheapened this otherwise nice rifle, IMHO..... I'm sure they had to keep this gun in a hand gun caliber because of the brass frame.

Regards

tEN wOLVES