Interesting Pocket Conversion

[Matt Bastardson]

Here's my 1849 Colt Wells Fargo snubbie, complete with low-profile brass front sight and bobbed hammer.  Now, I'm not even that good.  Imagine what somebody can do who has some real talent.

[Dalton Masterson]

This is an interesting thread, but I wish the pics of the pistol in question were still on here.
The only real Colt I have is a Root model, and I dont doubt it is real in the least.
DM

Edit. Changed pic for better view of a faked antique.

[Matt Bastardson]

Except for the fact that there is no Colt Root Model revolver in the photo? 


(That's odd that the link that started this thread now points to a different gun.)

You're in luck though....as I still had a browser tab open to that web page.  Let me see if I can post the photos for you (and posterity).

[Matt Bastardson]

Does anybody know what this gun finally sold for?  Because fake or not, $425-$500 isn't a bad price.  I can't hardly make one for that price LOL!


More photos of that gun:

[Matt Bastardson]

Here's the description that went with it:

------------------------------------------------------
079-SALE-3543B, Colt Model 1849 Pocket Non-Factory Cartridge Conversion .32 CF, Revolver, Description: Made in 1853 and later converted for centerfire cartridges. Pin and notch sights, loading lever removed and plugged, ejector mounted to lower right side of barrel, no frame markings, Stagecoach cylinder scene, \"X\" on left trigger guard shoulder and smooth grips. No number on frame, partial on barrel, wedge stuck, all other numbers match. Condition: Good. The blue and casehardened parts have been cleaned to a flat gray, barrel address is gone, with patches of fine blood pitting and mild handling marks. 20% of the original silver is visible on the grip straps. Grips have been oiled, with mild dings and varnish loss. Action is very good. 81xxx matching on bottom of gun, cylinder and I could not pop wedge. Good overall.
----------------------------------------------------------

And more photos of the gun in question:

[Matt Bastardson]

I suppose its only odd to me that the seller wasn't interested in, or didn't bother with, popping the wedge and removing the barrel and cylinder and examining the gun that way.  All that it would have taken would be a block of wood and a plastic or rubber mallet.  (Oops, a wood dowel or padded pin punch, since the ejector housing is partially blocking the barrel wedge.)

Anyways, here's the final few photos:

[Matt Bastardson]

Great photo by the way.  I wonder if anybody in SASS is using the alias 'Matt Bastardson'?  That'd be a good one!

[Dalton Masterson]

Thank you for the pics. Looks like someone tried to polish the heck out of it and make it better. Would be an interesting critter tho.

No, the Root is not pictured, as I dont have any pics of it handy. I was posting the fake antique Walker in the photo actually, in response to your talent comment of a few posts back. The grips dont look right, so the wood is back on it, and it is a nice, old looking Uberti. No proofs or markings were removed tho.

My Root, on the other hand, is a vers. 3A, with full flute cylinder, and lots of pits on one side, like it layed somewhere damp for awhile. The one for sale looks new compared to my Root.
DM

[Matt Bastardson]

Thank you for the pics. Looks like someone tried to polish the heck out of it and make it better. Would be an interesting critter tho.

No, the Root is not pictured, as I dont have any pics of it handy. I was posting the fake antique Walker in the photo actually, in response to your talent comment of a few posts back. The grips dont look right, so the wood is back on it, and it is a nice, old looking Uberti. No proofs or markings were removed tho.

My Root, on the other hand, is a vers. 3A, with full flute cylinder, and lots of pits on one side, like it layed somewhere damp for awhile. The one for sale looks new compared to my Root.
DM

Excellent.  I'd love to see the Root.

I've got an old (1970's vintage maybe?) ASM Walker that needs restoring that I'll someday deal with.  It's so loose it shoots around corners.  The cylinder arbor needs to be pulled and repaired/tightened, and the wedge slot in the barrel needs to be heated up and forged back into shape(flush) from where its started to bulge from shooting heavy loads.  Somebody previously ground on a section of the barrel to remove something inscribed/marked there....what I don't know.  And I've got to fix the loading lever notch to keep it from dropping down on every shot.  With that said, the bluing on the gun is still gorgeous, and the grips are beautiful, and its a great gun.  Too bad virtually none of the 1000 or so originals survived.  (Gee, I guess I am sort of a 'collector', eh?)

[Dalton Masterson]

What do you mean none of the originals survived? 
http://www.juliaauctions.com/firearms.asp#auctions
3rd one down in the list, under the Auctions heading.
There are actually quite a few Walkers left, if you could afford one.

Sad thing is, if I could afford one, I would be shootin it.
DM

[Matt Bastardson]

You are kidding right?  Is this a joke?

This is the terrible threat you've been warning us about?  Is that a brass frame? Gimme a break!

Dude, I didn't make it to fool anybody, nor did I attempt to make it look 'old'.    I made it from a rusty piece of garbage brass framed Italian replica for my own shooting/owning pleasure.  (I could have just as easily used a steel framed version though and removed the markings and substituted Colt's markings instead.....but why bother.)  The point is that even I know how to go about recreating old patinas and altering guns, and I'm a rank amateur at it.  The 'pros' are just that...pros at it.  They've got the setups and the chemical baths, the proper stamps and/or engraving tools, and everything else needed to accurately create 'originals'...(stuff that I have no interest in procuring, nor a use for).  And you or any other 'collector' would never be the wiser for it, as evidenced by this thread in which you all claim to have 'originals'.  LOL!

By the way, there is zero evidence that Wells Fargo ever purchased or used any 1849 Colt Pocket Models, sans loading lever or not.  The 'Wells Fargo' Colt variety is a misnomer falsely coined by 'collectors'.  Although common sense would tell you that Wells Fargo agents likely carried their own privately purchased 1849's for 'backup' ....hence the (re)creation of this little .31 Colt hideout 'snubbie'.
(As happens.....I just shot it empty on the 4th of July so that I could clean it since the chambers have been loaded with Pyrodex and ball for about 10+ years...or more.  It shot no problem.  Quite powerful, actually, despite what the ballistics say.)

[Matt Bastardson]

What do you mean none of the originals survived? 
http://www.juliaauctions.com/firearms.asp#auctions
3rd one down in the list, under the Auctions heading.
There are actually quite a few Walkers left, if you could afford one.

Sad thing is, if I could afford one, I would be shootin it.
DM

I believe I said 'virtually', as in just a few.  There aren't many original Walkers left at all.

"Jesse James revolver" indeed!  That right there makes me question every other gun being auctioned there.  I wonder how many times the descendants of Jesse James can sell one of 'his' revolvers?  Need money?  Darn, time to dig up another revolver owned by uncle Jesse!  LOL!  What a racket.

[Matt Bastardson]

Shoot, my Walker looks more 'original' than that purportedly original Walker.  That is one butt-ugly $950,000 Walker.  It just show ya, they're paying for the bragging rights, not the firearm per se.

Photo of Jesse Jame's Colt 1860 Army and rig:

[Appalachian Ed]

James D. Julia is only one of the most respected arm auction houses in the world,

but hey some guy with no real name on the CAS board questions all his guns authenticity,

so I guess we should all stay away.

-Ed

[Matt Bastardson]

So what you're claiming is that a 'reputable' dealer never dabbles in fakes or illegal items?  LOL!  That's a good one!  Except for the fact that they occasionally get popped for doing just that.  Most recently some were popped for illegally dealing in stolen Iraqi loot.  And before that it was pre-Colombian loot.  And I believe one of the large and well-respected auction houses was popped not long ago for something or other, exactly what eludes me at the moment.

Regardless, believe what you like.

Here's my Walker that I paid $99 for back around 1989 (used ASM circa 1970's vintage).  Below it is the $950,000 Walker from the auction.  You tell me which one looks better and/or 'original'.  Ditto for the powder flask.

[Dalton Masterson]

I dont know why they have the Jesse James picture in the photo, and I dont really care. That is also the wrong picture, as that is an 1860 Army.
There are nice original guns out there, and I have seen them, handled them, and wished I could shoot them.
Your Walker looks like a clone, which it is.
I really hate to show you pics of my Root, because it will probably be a fake too.
Good day.

Ed, I love your new Remington by the way. Beautiful gun.
DM

[Matt Bastardson]

I dont know why they have the Jesse James picture in the photo, and I dont really care. That is also the wrong picture, as that is an 1860 Army.
There are nice original guns out there, and I have seen them, handled them, and wished I could shoot them.
Your Walker looks like a clone, which it is.
I really hate to show you pics of my Root, because it will probably be a fake too.
Good day.

Ed, I love your new Remington by the way. Beautiful gun.
DM

Yeah, that's the Jesse James revolver, not a Walker.  I put a caption there to clear up any confusion.  And other than the finish, my Walker looks just like the crappy looking original Walker....more 'authentic' looking, actually (especially in person).  The $950,000 Walker looks like its been cobbled together from parts.

As for the Root, why hesitate to show a photo?  If you believe its real (and/or it is real) what I say or don't say about it matters little.

It seems that many here believe that their nuts get smaller if anyone dares question the authenticity of some of these guns.  I don't know, maybe they do.

[Dalton Masterson]

Well, after reading all of your posts, and every one of them that regards someone else's gun, refutes them as a fake, it just isnt worth the effort for me to take it down from the shelf, photo it, and let someone bash it.
And yes, its real.
'Nuff said.

DM  (oh, and thanks for notating the Jesse James photo. That does clear that up.)

[Matt Bastardson]

Well, after reading all of your posts, and every one of them that regards someone else's gun, refutes them as a fake, it just isnt worth the effort for me to take it down from the shelf, photo it, and let someone bash it.
And yes, its real.
'Nuff said.

DM  (oh, and thanks for notating the Jesse James photo. That does clear that up.)

Come on....I don't believe that the Colt Roots were/are popular enough for the fakers to even bother with, so I believe that you're pretty safe in that regard.  The Root design was sort of an odd half-step backward for Colt.  Here's one for reference:

(Now, the Colt Roots were the guns more likely to be found in grandma's panty drawer in good shape.  They were more of the 'parlor pistol' type kept in the side drawer by the front door on in a nightstand by the bed.)


http://www.jlkstamps.com/guns/root.htm

[Matt Bastardson]

Here's a pretty Colt Root, ivory grips, cased and all.  Sweet.  (The case and accoutrements looks like it was from a Colt 1849 Pocket Model, now deceased.  LOL!)

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=133455343