Senior Frontier Cartridge

[Fairshake]

I've been shooting Frontier Cartridge for about 9-10 months now and love it. This is just my opinion but it seems that every other class has a age break and we need one in FC. At age 62, it is almost impossible for me to compete against a 25 yr old. I'm happy to see some young shooters come over to the class. It is the true powder of the cowboys we play and to me a big smile on my face every stage. I love the "MAN YOU JUST HAD FLAMES COMING OUT THAT BARREL" from the onlookers. We old guys need a chance to drive that new Cadilliac home also. After all them young shooters have been taking them home when I shoot. I know that SASS is deep in classes but they need to add a few more. What is the feedback like on this one fella's.

[Dick Dastardly]

I'll shoot with ya Fairshake.

I've been hiding in the Warthog Geezer group, but FC-Sr. would fit me just as well.

DD-DLoS

[Pettifogger]

I'm over 60 and only shoot FCD or Frontiersman.  I also work on lots of matches and there are just to many categories already.  If the trend continues, pretty soon everyone will have their own category.  Once we get to that point, there's no point in timing or keeping score.  There won't be any competition, just a bunch of people wearing cowboy clothes.

[Blackpowder Burn]

I know I'll never be fast enough to win a category (unless there is only one person in it!  ), so I just go for the fun.  After all, there have to be those like me in the bottom so you can have someone for the fast guys to beat and claim 1st place.

You can't beat Frontier Cartridge - unless it's Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter!

[August]

The issue is not so much age, for me.  I'm 63 and can hold my own with the youngsters as long as the playing field is level.  What I cannot seem to do is make period correct guns and cartridges competitive with .32 caliber, substitute powder, 75 grain bullet loads.  From my perch, the issue is spirit of the game rather than age.  People shoot FC at big matches who never shoot it the rest of the year just to get a chance at the Cadillac (or, what ever company is still in business -- Smart Car, perhaps). 

You practice constantly.  You refine your lubricants and boolits.  You give special care to your guns.  You study the craft, history, and spirit of black powder shooting.  You learn to drive them gunz as fast as they'll go.   Then, you go to a big match and someone shows up with cap gunz signed up in the FC category.  To my sensibilities, that's like cutting in line, fudging on taxes, stealing papers from the news box, or taking all the sweetener from the table at the restaurant.   

Now, yer gonna tell me that's the human condition.  And, I'm gonna reply it ain't cowboy!

You just don't want to be the guy at the match who says.... "is that load legal?"   Pisses people off.  Called a "P" on a guy who was candy striping shotshells a while back and had to put up with a lot of derision for the rest of the match for my efforts. 

I think Warthog is the way to go.  Throw FC away and make the category WH.

[Doc O]

August. What is candy stiping shotshells? I shoot 70grs behind 1 1/8 oz and staying that way.
For me I'm not fast and don't ever win. That's OK and have no complaints. I won plenty of time when I was younger.
Now it's all for fun and I love. Although I would'nt mind winning a '57 Chevy, you can keep the Cady  .

Doc

[Fairshake]

I'll agree with you 100% August. We have a shooter in his early 30's who does just this. He shoots 38 spl loaded to shoot fast. I would also be in favor of a WH. class. Pettifogger I will have to disagree with you on this one. If I read you right then let's just throw out all the categories and shoot one class called cowboy. Why is it fair for one class to have a age split and not the other? Just as August stated, I know of one young shooter that waits until the big match then changes to FC with light loads. By the way this shooter is fast and I give him credit for that. I don't know about you Pettifogger but life has not spared my body. I have a right hand that is numb from a barroom window fight from my cop days; I'm right handed. I have a infusion pump implanted for 4 destroyed disc in lower back. Cut out of three police car wrecks. Now I still want to shoot and I do but I'm only asking for a more level field. The young body will whip my butt every time. Or lets split the classes, 38 down in one group and above in the other.

[Noz]

Throw away those fancy fad brass cases and the Ruger guns. Come over to Frontiersman. Very few people are crazy enough to shoot with us. By the way, I'm over 70 and am insulted if I'm asked if I shoot Elder Statesman.  Nope, I do the best I can with what I've got to work with in the only category that is exclusive both for equipment and for shooting style.  If they wouldlimit Frontiersman to outside hammer doubles I'd own a TTN tomorrow.

[Pettifogger]

Fairshake, go back and re-read my post.  I didn't even remotely say we should throw out all the categories.  Said we shouldn't create more.  There are already over 30 categories.  Even at a large match this makes match administration a nightmare.  I have a bad back with two ruptured discs and one numb finger on my left hand so I feel your pain so to speak.  However, it is impossible to create a so-called level playing field that will suit everyone.  The rules are the same for everyone.  That's about as level as we humans can get.  What I said was that if we keep adding categories pretty soon every category will only have one person in it and at that point why bother timing and keeping score.  At that point there is no competition so we should just give out attendance awards.  I'm not going to win a major match (EOT or WR) but I give it my best every time I shoot.  The most fun for a lot of us is socializing before and after the match and I think that is why cowboy shooting is so popular.

[August]

Sorry.  Candy Striping = alternating black and smokeless shells so as to reduce the amount of smoke on the bay.

[Pettifogger]

Sorry.  Candy Striping = alternating black and smokeless shells so as to reduce the amount of smoke on the bay.

That way you can fire two categories with one gun.

[Jefro]

What's not in the spirit by shooting .38 or .32 as long they play within the rules and meet the smoke standard?? And what's not historically accurate about my 32/20 Winchester 1873, mfg. in 1885?? I just came back from a two state grudge match where a number of shooters were shooting 32/20 making plenty of smoke. I shoot 38sp with BL 158gr Snakebite, full of 3f Schuetzen and make plenty of fire and smoke, more than some .45s I've seen full of grits and 777. If someone ain't making the smoke call em on it, I've seen it called, over shotshells with not enough 777, never hear of candy-striping though , that's almost funny . I don't care what you shoot if yer makin smoke and having fun .  As for new categories, FCGF 55 and over should be next since that's what I shoot .

All kidding aside, we have plenty of categories to choose from, as well as many sub-categories at larger shoots. Most matches will allow these sub-categories to be recognized provided they have enough shooters, usually five or more. Here are some of the more popular ones I've seen.........................

"Josey Wales"
4 main match pistols (either cap and ball or standard cartidge) and a double barrel or lever shotgun.
Pistols shot duelist or gun fighter one pair on person in holsters. Second pair will be staged where rifle would normally be staged. Posse will assist in getting all back to table.

"Pale Rider Category"
Full-load BP shooters shooting Duelist AND Gunfighter (Separate categories):
Load requirements.

Revolver and Rifle:
40 caliber and above
200 grain projectile
25 grains by volume of bp or SASS-approved bp substitute
*note: 38-40 shooters may use a 180 grain projectile BUT must use 30 grains by volume of bp/sub.

Shotgun:

Double or 87 Only
60 grs by volume of bp/sub
1 1/8 oz or more of shot

"Plainsman"
Cap and Ball pistols shot duelist style, lever action shotgun or double barrel only, single shot rifle caliber rifle, light loads so as not to damage the targets and the fact close range. Plainsman will fire half the rifle rounds as called for on the stage.

Categorie
For those with their "I wish it was a SASS Category" style of shooting (within reason), this is your big chance to do so at a State Match, and, if you have a few pards that want to shoot that style as well, get an award for doing so. For you pards, like that bunch of "Outlaw" shooters in Tennessee that tried to corrupt my morals at the Tennessee State Match, that always wanted to shoot Black Powder Gunfighter, Senior Gunfighter, Outlaw, Pale Rider, Modern diehards, etc. this is your big chance.

"Outlaw"
All firearms shot from the hip.

In addition, we are offering the opening of the match to different non-SASS recognized categories, such as "Frontier Cowboy" (Classic Cowboy shooting only Black Powder). So if you can get 5 or more people as demented as you are, we can include your category in the main match and recognize it at the awards ceremony


I copied and pasted all of these from a few state match pages. As you can see there are plenty of clubs more than willing to recognize a non SASS category, not only at the local level, but state matches and many more. At our state match if you can round up five or more shooters, they will recognize the category and include it in the awards ceremony. I shoot BPGF knowing it's not an approved category, however it is recognized at four out of five of the states matches I attended. Heck I even win our monthly match, cause I'm the only one shooting BPGF . The bottom line is the opportunity is there, find ya a few pards that want to play the same game and start shooting. Good Luck.

Jefro  Relax-Enjoy

[Noz]

The most fun for a lot of us is socializing before and after the match and I think that is why cowboy shooting is so popular.

My belief exactly!!

[Howdy Doody]

Some clubs add catagories on their own and still have a complete SASS match. You can add, but not subtract if you want to have a bigger type (annual ) match.
My club The Cowboys has had classes for Sr. Frontiersman, Sr. Frontier Cartridge for years. It is a big club and there are many older members.
If there is a demand, as in four or five shooters, the club can afford an award, then they can have a class.

Western 3 Gun has choices too. Shoot it open class or shoot amatuer in age based classes. They have classes for smoke throwers also.

Most clubs I have shot with, just want to have what shooters want. It wouldn't be advantageous to have a senior class if there was only one participant and who would want to win a class like that anyway? The age base of CAS shooters is getting older and older. We watch in awe at the youngsters that with sharp reflexes, lots of practice, as they mow down a stage in times that are just fantastic, but those youngsters are not the majority of the shooters and that is probably why SASS has instigated the new designations of the fastest classes and separated them by age.

I have fun shooting against folks in my age bracket and maybe some others do too. 

[Noz]

I keep thinking back to a shoot last summer at a small local club. Weather was beastly hot so very few showed up. We had 12 shooters and we all won. Not intentionally but everyone was shooting in a different category.

[Dick Dastardly]

Yer rite Noz.

In another way, every time I shoot, I win.  I win friends, I win enjoyment and I win by simply spending quality time in the company of my own choosing doing something I want to do.

My belt only needs one buckle.  The one I have holds my pants up.  I have suspenders that can lend a hand if need be.  Friends are gold.  Way more important than any buckles or badges.

Hey!  New gun cart most done.  I'll load 'er up and see how she goes this weekend.

DD-DLoS

[Fiddler Green]

Sorry.  Candy Striping = alternating black and smokeless shells so as to reduce the amount of smoke on the bay.

Hey, I do that, in my Tarus Gachos, to show people the diffrence between BP and smokeless. I let them shoot it with a mix of both to see what it's like. Everyone likes the BP better (no surprise there).

Bruce

[August]

Hey!  New gun cart most done.  I'll load 'er up and see how she goes this weekend.

DD-DLoS

Hey, you can't come in here and tease us like that.  Where the heck are the pictures?

[Noz]

Yer rite Noz.

In another way, every time I shoot, I win.  I win friends, I win enjoyment and I win by simply spending quality time in the company of my own choosing doing something I want to do.

My belt only needs one buckle.  The one I have holds my pants up.  I have suspenders that can lend a hand if need be.  Friends are gold.  Way more important than any buckles or badges.

Hey!  New gun cart most done.  I'll load 'er up and see how she goes this weekend.

DD-DLoS

RE: Gun Cart. Join the clan of those of us doing "cowboy lite" (from J-Bar)
We're ditching the guncarts and going with saddlebags. Not a difficult as I thought it might be and really a lot less hassle.

[Fairshake]

I didn't start this post to knock any one on the class they shoot or to be angry at youth. I'm very happy shooting FC and will continue to do so with my warthog loaded 45's. The person that shoots in that class with mouse fart 38's knows he is taking advantage. I'm also at a point in my life that I don't worry about such things to the point that I lose sleep. Thank's for the feedback and input.