22 side match at Nat. shoot

[bear tooth billy]

will the 22 side match be a speed shoot or a longer distance shoot. Will a Henry golden boy
be legal?

                  BTB

[River City John]

will the 22 side match be a speed shoot or a longer distance shoot. Will a Henry golden boy
be legal?

                  BTB

I believe the Henry Mfg. Co rifles are disapproved for NCOWS, Bear Tooth Billy. "Henry Big Boy and all other models." Too many modern features.

Not sure on the particulars of the .22 Side Match, though. Another Pard will chime in on that, I'm sure.

RCJ 

[French Jack]

BTB-- the .22 side match will be for accuracy, not speed.  There is some discussion as to whether we allow disapproved guns, but as of this time, it is NCOWS approved only.  Marlin 39, Taurus/Rossi clone of the Winchester pump, Stevens Favorite, Remington RB repros, or other repros of period firearms, to name a few, and of course, original rifles.

[bear tooth billy]

A Winchester low wall (U.S. rep arms) repro with a Marbles tang sight and a Lyman globe
front sight should be NCOWS legal shouldn't it? I'm not finding much on 22s in the
tally book. 

               BTB

[Cole Bluesteele]

Do not see a listing of approved or disallowed .22's in the Tally Book.   Where can i find a listing.  Sans a list which if any of the following are acceptable:  1970's vintage Marlin 39A, Winchester 9422 XTR and Henry Yellow Boy?

Thanks,
Cole

[French Jack]

Actually only the Marlin 39A would be, as it is a continuation of a pre 1899 model.  Neither Winchester with the 9422 or Henry with the Golden Boy are anything other than a modern model.

We have not really given much coverage to approved 22's, as they would only be approved for a side match or a specialty shoot.  The normal event would not include either.  The use of 22's has really only come into discussion with the interest and the work to set up an acceptable course of fire for the youth.

I am certain we will need to come up with a workable list, before too long.

[Pancho Peacemaker]

I posed a similar question in the NCOWS chambers regarding the Wincester 94/22.  One senior NCOWS member indicated it would be OK for use.

I'd like some clarification on this.  As usual I'm packin' more gear & ammo than I probably should.  If my rimfire rifle is not legal, that's one more thing I can leave behind.

Pancho

[Will Ketchum]

I posed a similar question in the NCOWS chambers regarding the Wincester 94/22.  One senior NCOWS member indicated it would be OK for use.

I'd like some clarification on this.  As usual I'm packin' more gear & ammo than I probably should.  If my rimfire rifle is not legal, that's one more thing I can leave behind.

Pancho

Pancho, as French Jack said the 9422 isn't NCOWS legal . I sure wish it were since mine is sweet.  I'll have to stick to my Stevens 414 (which I haven't shot since I got it back from Vaughn Trueman, who relined it).  Or my Rossie pump.

Will Ketchum

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Howdy Pards
Today I discussed this topic with my committee .   This is a special side match shoot and it's not part of the Main Match
so lever guns in 22 with iron sights or pump guns or single shots with iron sights . So yes if you have a Henry or a Winchester
you can use these in the 22 side match only .

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Howdy Pards
Today I discussed this topic with my committee .   This is a special side match shoot and it's not part of the Main Match
so lever guns in 22 with iron sights or pump guns or single shots with iron sights . So yes if you have a Henry or a Winchester
you can use these in the 22 side match only .

Rowdy...
Sent you a PM, this is not a good move!!

Bill

[French Jack]

Our discussion about this side match centered about what were permissable firearms.  Since it IS a side match, and as such is at the discretion of the host Posse, we decided to allow all 22's that fall into the following catagories:  Single shots; Pump actions; Lever actions, Bolt actions.  Iron sights only. 

We intentionally excluded semiautos for safety reasons-- they are difficult to either single load or to prevent them from chambering a live round.  We will only be chambering a live round as directed.  Shooters will be firing in a relay, one shooter and one round at a time.

Bring 'em on and have a ball.

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Our discussion about this side match centered about what were permissable firearms.  Since it IS a side match, and as such is at the discretion of the host Posse, we decided to allow all 22's that fall into the following catagories:  Single shots; Pump actions; Lever actions, Bolt actions.  Iron sights only. 

We intentionally excluded semiautos for safety reasons-- they are difficult to either single load or to prevent them from chambering a live round.  We will only be chambering a live round as directed.  Shooters will be firing in a relay, one shooter and one round at a time.

Bring 'em on and have a ball.

Bob.....Its still a mistake......I can see it now..."if they let us use a non approved firearm in a side match...well...we should be able to use them anytime" Its against everything NCOWS stands for and worked so hard to get!!

The NCOWS members that quit over the Ruger Bisely are probably laughing like hell!!

Any .22's NCOWS uses should be period correct, or a clone there of. There are plenty of them out there at a reasonable cost. I'll not be a part of this fiasco waiting to happen. This should have been put to vote...but what the h%$$

OCB

[Pancho Peacemaker]

Howdy Pards
Today I discussed this topic with my committee .   This is a special side match shoot and it's not part of the Main Match
so lever guns in 22 with iron sights or pump guns or single shots with iron sights . So yes if you have a Henry or a Winchester
you can use these in the 22 side match only .

Rowdy,

Thank you for the clarifying the allowable plinkers.  I can see there is some well founded debate on this issue.  I just want to follow the rules set forth by the governing body.  I don't intend to bend or push rules by any means.

"Legal rimfire small arms" might be a good topic to chew on at the next convention.  Perhaps a small amendment to the tallybook is in order for the next edition?

Until the current ammo component shortage resolves, I think we will see more local clubs open up optional "rimfire" divisions for pards who are short on centerfire ammo.  I know many SASS clubs (including ours) have instituted these provisional rules.  I know I'd much rather shoot a .22 than not shoot at all (and believe me, many folks are facing this situation in our present economy).

If NCOWS had a brief list of 'do's' and 'don'ts' regarding rimfire guns, that would give clear guidance for authenticity at the local club level.


Pancho

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

I've had a couple of emails from folks wanting to know why I have a problem with this...Well I don't have with a 22 side match, I personally think it would be a lot of fun.....it's the changing of the rules allowing non approved firearms in the match that is the problem, and I'm not the only one.

I understand the hosting club can set up side matches to please itself...thats OK if they want to do it that way...but its going to turn a lot of members off. If you want to attract new members by bending the rules then you are running the risk of losing some of us that have been here for a while.

JMHO

Bill

[River City John]

OCB,
I don't think anyone confuses that a hosting club has the right to stretch allowances for a side match from stated NCOWS rules. Admittedly, our By-Laws are somewhat vague about defining .22 cal rifles.

I, for one, do not think we are bending the rules in this situation, but rather adhering to our established rules as set forth covering this situation until such time as we see fit to define our rules with a bit more clarity in regards to .22 rifle allowed in a hosting posse's sidematch.
The only official wording refers specifically to the Henry Mfg. Co. products. So be it.

While I agree that we need to be clearer in defining this caliber's approved guidelines, as of the date of the National our By-Laws allow certain ambiguities in this category. I say let's let all those who so wish, take advantage of those ambiguities for this side match as voted to be allowed by an approved NCOWS Posse. I am confident that all participants will respect all other areas as far as authenticity as defined by NCOWS.

NCOWS is not hurt by this, but rather NCOWS learns by this.

RCJ

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

NCOWS is not hurt by this, but rather NCOWS learns by this.

RCJ......

I guess this is one time that you and I will have to disagree.

Bill

[River City John]

RCJ......

I guess this is one time that you and I will have to disagree.

Bill

Bill, the nice thing is I respect your opinion regardless of whether we agree or disagree. It's equally valuable.

RCJ

[Duke Henry]

I see it as an excuse to buy a new rifle . ( like I need one)
duke

[Lone Gunman]

And now, working without a net, I will undertake the perilous tactic of employing FACTS to make a point.

The ByLaw applicable to this discussion very clearly states:

7-2.  No modern (post 1899) firearms will be allowed unless they are authentic reproductions of traditional firearms or very markedly resemble traditional firearms.

Further on in the 'NCOWS RULES AND REGULATIONS' section we again see:

Cartridge firearms shall be original to the period or authentic reproductions of original makes and models.

Make special note of the absence of any phrases such as, 'except for side-matches' or 'except for .22's'.  These ByLaws and rules apply equally to main matches, side matches, buffalo shoots, even re-enactments.

And just so there's no confusion, the rule specific to .22's:

.22 caliber hand guns for main stages are to be pocket pistol/derringers only. .22 revolvers and rifles are restricted in use for specialty shoots only.

was added a few years ago to make sure no one thought they could use .22's as main match firearms. In no way does it imply that .22's are held to a different standard of authenticity than any other firearm.

In short, the use of any modern firearm at NCOWS events, for any purpose, is very clearly prohibited in the rules and bylaws. There are no exceptions for side-matches, .22's or 'posse discretion'.  It's as simple as that. End of Lesson...Class Dismissed. If anyone disagrees please document your opinion.

To end on a lighter note, if modern .22's were allowed because "its just a side-match",  then there wouldn't be any justification for not allowing me to shoot the Cowboy Trap side-match with a tactical shotgun while wearing nothing but a Speedo and a Gilligan Hat would there? After-all, it's just a side-match. 

[Books OToole]

I think I have to agree with LG and OCB on this one.  It is much easier to do it right from the start; than try and fix it after you have "let is slide" for awhile.*


Books









* That's what we did with the Bisley Vaquero, and it bit us in the ^$$.