Trail Boss in the.50-95 Win. UPDATE !!

Chuck 100 yd · May 23, 2009, 06:22:29 PM

My search for a decent smokeless load for the .50-95 has ended in less than stellar results. The 2009 Hodgdens Annual Manual has all the Win. 76 cartridges but the .50-95

I tried Chaparral`s suggested load of IMR 4198 with lousy results. Very accurate but so position sensitive that if you don't raise the muzzle to place the powder to the rear before each shot you will have a stuck bullet in the bore.

The 2007 Hodgdens Annual Manual has an article on Trail Boss powder and suggestions for obsolete cartridges. It states ,find the amount of Trail Boss (TB) to make a 100% load density load and use 70% of that as your starting load.

The neighbors are at the beech this weekend !!!!!!

1- Find the 100% charge ( filled to the bullets base ) = 19.5 gr.TB

2- Find 70% of above = 13.65gr.TB

3- Load 5 rounds with 350gr. Lyman bullet/SPG ,Burtram brass, WLR primer and 13.5 gr.TB

4- Stats over the Chronograph = Vel.= 1091 ES=26.6 SD= 13.3
(80.81 FPS per GR. of powder)

5- Load 5 rounds with same bullet, primer and case with 14.0 gr. TB

6- Stats over the chronograph = Vel.= 1116 ES= 6.1 SD= 3.1 ( WOW!! )
( that ½ gr. Increased velocity by 25 fps. )

7- load 13 rounds to take to the range in a couple of weeks to put on paper.

Range report to follow.

UPDATE !! I fired those 13 rounds at 50 yd. today. 10 were loaded with bullets cast of wheel weight alloy and 3 were of WW and pure lead @ 50/50%.

After sight adjustments I fired a three shot group at 50yd. with WW the group was 1 1/2"
With 50-50 mix the group (3 shots) was just under 1" center to center (almost a single hole! )

This load is soft and very accurate in my rifle. Many more of these loads will go through my barrel.

Rowdy Fulcher · May 24, 2009, 12:35:57 PM

Chuck
I have been using TB when I shoot smokeless and it works great for me . I like having enough powder in the case that there is no problem with position sensitive . I have only worked with the the 45-60 , I think Dirty Brass has worked with the 45-75 . Has anyone done anything with the 40-60 ?

Dirty Brass · May 24, 2009, 12:48:06 PM

I haven't worked with trail boss yet - concentrated mainly on triple seven in my 45/75 and got some exceptional accuracy with it, so I stayed with that.

TB will be on my agenda this summer though! Also want to try it in my 45/90 Winchester model 1886. (Is it alright to mention that in the 1876 forum?)

Grizzly Adams · May 24, 2009, 04:24:28 PM

Quote from: Dirty Brass on May 24, 2009, 12:48:06 PM
I haven't worked with trail boss yet - concentrated mainly on triple seven in my 45/75 and got some exceptional accuracy with it, so I stayed with that.

TB will be on my agenda this summer though! Also want to try it in my 45/90 Winchester model 1886. (Is it alright to mention that in the 1876 forum?)

I'll check with the moderator!

Dirty Brass · May 25, 2009, 08:49:03 AM

Thanks

Chuck 100 yd · June 14, 2009, 06:27:20 PM

Bump for update.

Judge Roy Bean · August 23, 2009, 05:53:25 AM

Hi I seem to have a problem I have just tried to make up some 45-60 loads from some cut down 45-70 cases using Tail Boss , but every time I Try to load them in to the gun ( a new chappy) the head's push back in to the case and jam the rifle. I have tried to crimp them more but the same thing keeps happening what am I Doing wrong , fairly new to reloading.

Niederlander · August 23, 2009, 06:58:47 AM

Do you mean the bullets get shoved back in the case?

Judge Roy Bean · August 23, 2009, 08:24:26 AM

Yes.

Joe Lansing · August 23, 2009, 10:32:25 AM

Sounds like a neck sizing issue.....or thin brass....or an undersized bullet.... or any combination of the forementioned. I use Starline brass(cut down 45-70) which I heard are thicker, and I size to .458. I also use Lyman dies in my press and a 310 tool with 45-70 dies. I have had no problems as you have described.

J.L.

Joe Lansing · August 23, 2009, 10:35:59 AM

P.S.: I also load with smokeless powder. A full load of BLACK POWDER will also prevent this from happening.

J.L.

Judge Roy Bean · August 23, 2009, 11:11:30 AM

Thank you for your info, I am also using star-line brass & RSBS dies. Is there any suggestions as how to cure this problem.

Joe Lansing · August 23, 2009, 02:59:11 PM

What bullet are you using? What is the diameter?Are they cast or jacketed? You may not be using an appropriate bullet, or you may be seating them too deeply. A good crimp does 2 things: 1: it keeps the bullet from falling out of the case, and 2: keeps the bullet from falling IN the case by either biting into the lead, or entering a crimping groove if your bullet has one. Also the correct overall cartridge length is critical if they are to feed at all.

J.L.

Joe Lansing · August 23, 2009, 10:03:07 PM

In the early days of reloading, when there was only black powder, fired cases were generally not sized. They were washed and dried, reprimed, charged with black powder, and a lead bullet seated over the powder(compressing the powder) with the bullet kept from falling out with a crimp.
When smokeless powder came along and loaders tried to load it in BP cartridges with BP tools, the bullets fell into the cases because of the less bulky smokeless powder. So when using the old, non-resizing BP tools, the old timers used fillers to keep the bullets from falling into the case. These fillers were often cereals.
Today,many loaders use fillers, but for different reasons. I use fillers loading 45-60's, not because I have a bullet problem, but it eliminates unburned smokeless powder. If you attempt using fillers, do some research first. I discovered using fillers raises pressure, so smokeless charges should be reduced.

J.L.

Judge Roy Bean · August 24, 2009, 08:10:15 AM

Hi Joe, the bullets are .458 300gr, RNFP lead . I have never tried annealing the case mouth's befor would this help?
I did not know you could use filler's with nitro.

Joe Lansing · August 24, 2009, 10:39:20 AM

I don't anneal my 45-60s. As for filler, I use Quaker Puffed Rice... a sufficient amt. to compress the charge. Count the pieces. Start with your charge reduced by 20% and go up from there. My powder of choice is 4759.
But this still doesn't address why you are having this problem. Without actually seeing what you have, I tend to think that your crimp is not biting the bullet, but is simply crimping over it. If possible, try consulting face to face with an experienced loader in your area.

J.L.

Judge Roy Bean · August 24, 2009, 10:44:55 AM

Thanks again Joe.

Joe Lansing · August 24, 2009, 04:02:32 PM

Can you mail me one of your loads( less powder and primer, of course)? More, if you can spare them.

J.L.

evodude · October 02, 2009, 07:41:13 AM

For smokeless in my 50-95 Chappie Im using AA5744 behind a 350 grn. cast Lyman for 1500 fps, standard primers, CCI. Formed the brass out of .348 Win. brass, give it full charge of powder to fireform- takes care of the 'Coke bottle' look! Bear in mind my full charge of powder is 38 grains- thats what gave me the velocity and accuracy I was looking for. DONT start off with my charge in yer gun, pard - work up to it! And use a chronograph- its about the only way to tell when your approaching the limit. I talked to the rep at Hodgdon and it is within the range he recommended. The factory loadings way back then were at those velocities.

evodude · October 03, 2009, 06:40:25 AM

CORRECTION!!! My load is 36 grns. of AA 5744 not 38 as I misstated in my previous post. I got 1590-1625 fps. with the 38 grn charge. Accuracy was the same- just wanted to stay within the factory velocities.