Somalian Pirates Fall To Navy Seal Team

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I'm starting on THE COMMODORE.  I think I have about three left to read.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

 This is from a Canadian Navy captain off Somalia.

http://www.timescolonist.com/news/todays-paper/Deterrence+best+stop+piracy/1491117/story.html

[Delmonico]

I would believe in letting laws take the proccess here if I had hopes that true justice would be served.  Don't see it happening in this mess, sorry.  I see this guy sitting around living a better life than he had at home for years while the rest of the world argue about what to do with him. 

We'll see, lets meet back here in lets say 2 years and see whats up.

[Don Nix]

I agree with your statements but lets look at how the Navy and Coast Guard handle armed suspects.
After hailing  the occupants to stop thier vessel a warning shot is fired acros the bow. If the vessel fails to heed the warning US warships,if they determine the vessel to be hostile, then fire upon the ship. Case solved, survivors will be prosecuted.

You also must remember that when dealingwith the apprehension of criminals  that the military does not fire warning shots.
When they shoot it is center mass.
Some of us old  Military Police men had a bit of a hard time adjusring to the handling of law breakersand miscraents.
We were taught to handle them in the most efficiant and safe way while using that amount of force that was necessary to accomplish the task.
I have no doubt that given the opportunity the military will clean up the coast of Africa and if the panty waists will allow them to do their job the way they know how it will be another 200 years before they try taking another American ship.

[Daniel Nighteyes]

Remember it's not nice to "make" someone give up information, it might hurt his little feelings.

Del,

The only point where we disagree is over your above statement.  It strongly suggests applying coercive interrogation techniques such as torture in order to wring information out of him.  And THAT, Del, is against all the bodies of law that I mentioned.

Regards,

-- Nighteyes

[Daniel Nighteyes]

You also must remember that when dealing with the apprehension of criminals  that the military does not fire warning shots.
When they shoot it is center mass.

In my experience, civilian law enforcement agencies don't fire warning shots either, nor do they shoot to wound.  In all cases of which I'm aware, if they shoot, they shoot to stop.  That typically means center of mass.  The circumstances under which a shooting is deemed "righteous" -- the rules of engagement, if you will -- are more stringent in non-military law enforcement.

The only law-enforcement-connected warning shots of which I'm aware were fired by a nervous young National Guardsman in 1979.  During the first night of curfew/martial law following Hurricane Frederic in Mobile AL (my original home town), the Guardsman fired two warning shots into the ground to halt a handful of looters.  Actually, the poor Guardsman misunderstood his instructions.  He was supposed to yell "HALT!" twice, then fire the warning shot if necessary.  Instead he did it as BANG-BANG!  "HALT!" The looters hit the dirt and at least one of them cried, "Oh, Jesus!  Don't shoot, don't shoot!"

Since no one was injured, the authorities sorta overlooked it.

[Professor Marvel]

Thanks Daniel, Sir Charles, and Don - It is important to remember that by paying attention to the legal aspects we are kept from being brothers to the various outlaw nations.

By having an international declaration of  Somali to be a rogue state, and the now public threats of the pirates directly against U.S. ships and citizens, a legal case can now be made to properly arm merchant vessels just as they were in the last century.

Piracy of this nature is not new, "Terry and the Pirates"  while a cartoon work of fiction was in fact based on the hostilities in the China Seas. 

The solution now, as then, is arming the merchant vessels. This is the Merchant Navy's equivalent of "concealed carry"

A pair of heavy 50's fore and aft, light .30's on the superstructure railings,  half a dozen M-14's or G3's and a handful of LAWS will handle the situation nicely at less than $100k per vessel.

As before, the weapons can be secured under lock, with keys held by the captain and chief mate. "repel Borders drills" will
liven up the voyage. That will be much cheaper than the millions per vessel  in ransom that the pathetic  fat cat owners have been paying .

The only other solution in my mind is to end all sea traffic in the area. Naval patrols and escorts are not only costly but less effective since the pirates simply avoid the escorts, just as street thugs avoid police patrols.

Kipling was right: "once you pay the danegeld, you'll never be rid of the dane 

"Thomas Jefferson in dealing with the Barbary pirates of his day said
    "millions for defense, not one dime for tribute."

and Teddy Roosevelt said
""This government wants Perdicaris alive or Raisuli dead.""

yhs
Prof Marvel

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

DANEGELD by Rudyard Kipling

IT IS always a temptation to an armed and agile nation,
To call upon a neighbour and to say:
"We invaded you last night - we are quite prepared to fight,
Unless you pay us cash to go away."

And that is called asking for Dane-geld,
And the people who ask it explain
That you've only to pay 'em the Dane-geld
And then you'll get rid of the Dane!

It is always a temptation to a rich and lazy nation,
To puff and look important and to say:
"Though we know we should defeat you, we have not the time to meet you.
We will therefore pay you cash to go away."

And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
But we've proved it again and again,
That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
You never get rid of the Dane.

It is wrong to put temptation in the path of any nation,
For fear they should succumb and go astray,
So when you are requested to pay up or be molested,
You will find it better policy to say:

"We never pay any one Dane-geld,
No matter how trifling the cost,
For the end of that game is oppression and shame,
And the nation that plays it is lost!"

The above is a good policy.  It was followed wrt the Barbary Pirates, and is followed today by Israel.  Do not confuse the issue and use it as an excuse to mistreat prisoners.  BTW, the criminal law policy against admitting forced confessions is only marginally concerned with morality.  The primary objection to torture is that the information gained is highly suspect~

[Daniel Nighteyes]

The primary objection to torture is that the information gained is highly suspect~

I wouldn't call it the "primary objection" myself, but yup.

[Daniel Nighteyes]

The solution now, as then, is arming the merchant vessels. This is the Merchant Navy's equivalent of "concealed carry"

A pair of heavy 50's fore and aft, light .30's on the superstructure railings,  half a dozen M-14's or G3's and a handful of LAWS will handle the situation nicely at less than $100k per vessel.

As before, the weapons can be secured under lock, with keys held by the captain and chief mate.

Ya know, if you're gonna arm merchant vessels (and I agree with this, BTW), why not just trust the crew to adhere to the Captain's decision whether or not to make a "weapons-free" announcement???  Otherwise somebody's gotta run all over the place with a set of keys, essentially a waste of valuable time in such a situation.  Have you ever run from bow to stern on a modern merchant vessel?  That's a helluva long ways....

[Professor Marvel]

Ya know, if you're gonna arm merchant vessels (and I agree with this, BTW), why not just trust the crew to adhere to the Captain's decision whether or not to make a "weapons-free" announcement???  Otherwise somebody's gotta run all over the place with a set of keys, essentially a waste of valuable time in such a situation.  Have you ever run from bow to stern on a modern merchant vessel?  That's a helluva long ways....

Yes it is a bother, but the lockup would be an appropriate answer to the various BS applied by the Ports. If the weapons are secured with keys signed out, it "used to" accomodate the pacifist Ports. Once in International waters  It is entirely up to the officer's discretion as to "when" they choose to lock and unlock... hehehehe

The other alternative put forward has been to pick up and drop off a self-equipped merc weapons team (errr... civilian adviser team) on the way in or out of said pathetic Port Authorites.

My personal feeling is a shipping boycott of those arenas until arming the merchant vessels is allowed.

Even the Dali Lama has recently stated that to stop a public slaughter by a madman with a gun, it is perfectly acceptable to shoot the miscreant with your gun. This, from the bodhisattva of compassion...

yhs
Prof Marvel

[Daniel Nighteyes]

Yes it is a bother, but the lockup would be an appropriate answer to the various BS applied by the Ports. If the weapons are secured with keys signed out, it "used to" accomodate the pacifist Ports. Once in International waters  It is entirely up to the officer's discretion as to "when" they choose to lock and unlock... hehehehe

That makes perfect sense to me.

Even the Dali Lama has recently stated that to stop a public slaughter by a madman with a gun, it is perfectly acceptable to shoot the miscreant with your gun. This, from the bodhisattva of compassion...

I don't find that surprising at all.  Recall that bodhisattva refers to a "being of enlightenment"; essentially a Buddha-to-be.  Shooting one "bad guy" to save many "good folks" sounds very like an enlightened viewpoint to me.

[Professor Marvel]

I don't find that surprising at all.  Recall that bodhisattva refers to a "being of enlightenment"; essentially a Buddha-to-be.  Shooting one "bad guy" to save many "good folks" sounds very like an enlightened viewpoint to me.

Ah Monsieur Nighteyes, it seems we share similar viewpoints :-)
would that these were shared by those in power....

yhs
Prof Marvel