Somalian Pirates Fall To Navy Seal Team

valhalla · April 12, 2009, 02:03:40 PM

Yessir, Capt. Phillips jumped over the side again. But this time the Seals covered his action. Three pirates dead, one wounded and inn custody . Happy Easter All !

valhalla

Delmonico · April 12, 2009, 02:18:02 PM

Dumb question I'd like to see answered, why is one in custody? 5.56 rounds are damn cheap. This stupid mistake will cost us in both big amounts of money and the BS we'll have to go through to bring him to justice.

I just hope the guy in the White House has enough guts to tell the rest of the world, "he's our's catch your own pirate if you want one." And then have the guts to execute him as soon as he can have a fair trial, should be able to get it over by the end of this week.

Wymore Wrangler · April 12, 2009, 03:19:10 PM

Sorry Del, the political spin is already turning to turn this a-hole into the victim... It's not a military problem they're saying, they fired on a U.S. warship, nothing more military than that!

Delmonico · April 12, 2009, 05:20:24 PM

didn't expect any different.

RRio · April 12, 2009, 09:23:32 PM

Useful information can be extracted from this scumbag.

GO NAVY!!!

Delmonico · April 12, 2009, 10:59:57 PM

Quote from: Rawhide Rio on April 12, 2009, 09:23:32 PM
Useful information can be extracted from this scumbag.

GO NAVY!!!

Yes it can, but the problem is if he don't cheerfully and willingly give it up, we ain't gonna get nothing out of him. Remember it's not nice to "make" someone give up information, it might hurt his little feelings.

Daniel Nighteyes · April 12, 2009, 11:17:51 PM

Quote from: Wymore Wrangler on April 12, 2009, 03:19:10 PM
Sorry Del, the political spin is already turning to turn this a-hole into the victim...

I've checked every news source I can locate, and not one word about this can I find. Source, please?

Daniel Nighteyes · April 12, 2009, 11:19:18 PM

Quote from: Delmonico on April 12, 2009, 10:59:57 PMRemember it's not nice to "make" someone give up information, it might hurt his little feelings.

It's also against International Law, the Geneva Convention, and our own laws. It has been for more than 80 years...

Delmonico · April 13, 2009, 01:45:03 AM

Quote from: Daniel Nighteyes on April 12, 2009, 11:19:18 PM
It's also against International Law, the Geneva Convention, and our own laws. It has been for more than 80 years...

The Geneva Convention is only for uniformed military at war, does not cover this case. Also piracy is against the same laws, but heck, I guess thats OK, sorry this needs stopped, any how, anny way.

Four-Eyed Buck · April 13, 2009, 06:51:12 AM

Time to go to the convoy system over there, take away their opportunities. Would make the naval assets job much easier.....Buck

Daniel Nighteyes · April 13, 2009, 10:37:48 AM

Quote from: Delmonico on April 13, 2009, 01:45:03 AM
The Geneva Convention is only for uniformed military at war, does not cover this case. Also piracy is against the same laws, but heck, I guess thats OK, sorry this needs stopped, any how, anny way.

My point was that, no matter how one looks at it, what you suggested is against the law. That includes our own laws, which definitely apply; it includes International Law -- which also applies -- and even the Geneva Convention. These have all been true for at least 80 years that I know of.

Agreed that it must be stopped, and NOW, but breaking the applicable laws to do it would make us no better than them. The founding fathers designed our republic to be a government of laws, and violating those laws in the name of expediency goes against everything this nation has stood for over most of its history.

Obama's approval of the use of deadly force - quite legal in this situation, BTW - seems to have worked so far. The rest will rely on vigilance, international cooperation, and the prompt and appropriate (read as "legal") application of power...

Sir Charles deMouton-Black · April 13, 2009, 05:48:36 PM

I agree with Danny; For a number of reasons a legal process is important.
- It is the law!
- The Rule of Law is what distinguishes us from them.
- Ultimately, we must avoid actions that show us up as hypocrites. No country can go it alone. To get anything done we need to show allies and potential allies that we hold the high ground.

This was an effective, and proper use of special forces. The officer that was rescued is, no doubt, grateful. More importantly, a successful operation, done within the accepted rules of engagement, sets a positive note in the battle against piracy.

Daniel Nighteyes · April 13, 2009, 05:56:20 PM

And, by the way, the Fourth Geneva Convention DOES apply to civilians, as follows:

Article IV: ""Persons protected by the Convention are those who, at a given moment and in any manner whatsoever, find themselves, in case of a conflict or occupation, in the hands of a Party to the conflict or Occupying Power of which they are not nationals."

In other words, the care, treatment and handling of non-military and civilian personnel ARE covered by the Geneva Conventions.

Regards,

-- Nighteyes

Don Nix · April 13, 2009, 06:26:42 PM

That has nothing to do with Piracy on the high seas

Sir Charles deMouton-Black · April 13, 2009, 07:04:25 PM

So, that means pirates are criminals. Aren't there rules for dealing with criminals? If I recall from reading Patrick O"Brian novels, even Captain Jack Aubrey took pirates back to J.O.E. for trial before they were hung.

Whatever regime rules, our conduct is important.

Daniel Nighteyes · April 13, 2009, 07:05:21 PM

Quote from: Don Nix on April 13, 2009, 06:26:42 PM
That has nothing to do with Piracy on the high seas.

I reiterate: ...in case of a conflict or occupation, in the hands of a Party to the conflict or Occupying Power of which they are not nationals."

Lets see now. The United States Navy had a conflict (yup, that applies) and one pirate wound up a prisoner of said Navy, which represents the United States (yup, that applies too), which is a party to the conflict in question (strike three...).

Don Nix · April 14, 2009, 01:24:13 AM

Piracy ,according to the Geneva Sea accords and the United Nations is a crime
Should the act of piracy occur within the territorial waters ,generally tweve miles,of a natiion then the laws governing the crimes involved of that nation apply no matter the nationality of the victims.
If the act were to occur outside that boundary or upon the high seas then the laws of the nation of the ship assault would apply.
So had this crime occured within the territorial waters of say Kenya,then the illegal bording and kidnapping would be punishable under Kenyan Law. But because this act of [iracy occured on the high seas then the US Navy was acting in its capacity to protect not only international but American lives and property and used that amount of force necessary to accomplish that mission.
There is a special caveat concerning Somolian pirates.
The UN passed resolutions acknowledging that the state of Somolian is an outlaw state in that there is no government and no way to enforce any laws. So the resolution gives member nations the authority to handle the Somolian pirates on the high seas and upon the land of Somolia where piracy is abetted.
This is not a nation to nation conflict it has been deemed for hundred s of years as a crime. The nations will deal with the criminals as they see fit.
The US will treat them well no matter how hard it may seem to some. But dont expect the rest of the world to treat common murderers and thieves with compassion.

Major 2 · April 14, 2009, 05:23:06 AM

Regarding this ,expect to see it played out on the silver screen
...Someone or ones are vying for the book & screen rights RIGHT NOW....depending on $$$$$$ willing to be spent, it may be a made for TV movie or Feature Film....
Captian Phillips is about to become very Financially secure, saddly the SEALs most likely won't, but one or two might be film advisers.

My bet ..Feature Film with Bruce Willis as Phillps ( or Gene Hackman but he is a tad to old)

Unless your a Somoali Pirate this Film is ripe for the times and as we read this thread, another freighter named as the MV Irene was taken in the Gulf of Aden.
And about 17 more ships and their crews are held ,,,

Thank you SEALS for your service

Daniel Nighteyes · April 14, 2009, 10:33:53 AM

Quote from: Don Nix on April 14, 2009, 01:24:13 AM
Piracy ,according to the Geneva Sea accords and the United Nations is a crime
Should the act of piracy occur within the territorial waters ,generally tweve miles,of a natiion then the laws governing the crimes involved of that nation apply no matter the nationality of the victims.
If the act were to occur outside that boundary or upon the high seas then the laws of the nation of the ship assault would apply.
So had this crime occured within the territorial waters of say Kenya,then the illegal bording and kidnapping would be punishable under Kenyan Law. But because this act of [iracy occured on the high seas then the US Navy was acting in its capacity to protect not only international but American lives and property and used that amount of force necessary to accomplish that mission.
There is a special caveat concerning Somolian pirates.
The UN passed resolutions acknowledging that the state of Somolian is an outlaw state in that there is no government and no way to enforce any laws. So the resolution gives member nations the authority to handle the Somolian pirates on the high seas and upon the land of Somolia where piracy is abetted.
This is not a nation to nation conflict it has been deemed for hundred s of years as a crime. The nations will deal with the criminals as they see fit.
The US will treat them well no matter how hard it may seem to some. But dont expect the rest of the world to treat common murderers and thieves with compassion.

Well said.

Daniel Nighteyes · April 14, 2009, 08:09:46 PM

Quote from: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on April 13, 2009, 07:04:25 PM
So, that means pirates are criminals. Aren't there rules for dealing with criminals? If I recall from reading Patrick O"Brian novels, even Captain Jack Aubrey took pirates back to J.O.E. for trial before they were hung.

Whatever regime rules, our conduct is important.

Also well-said. [Ya sorta snuck in there on me...]

Captain Jack Aubrey, eh? Looks like we've read several of the same books.