Feeding problems

[Roscoe Coles]

I made up some cartridges to day (4 of them) using the 50-70 bullet fro the mould I have.  Its not one normally used for the 56-50 round.  The complete rounds are a hair under 1.5 inches OAL.  When I put one in it feeds just fine, when I put two in and it jams.  There are marks on the nose of the 2nd bullet where the block is gouging into the lead.  I am not sure what is going on here.  It could be a OAL thing, a bullet shape thing, it could be due to reshaping the I just don't know.  I am taking this out to the range to fire it to see what happens to the cases so I can choose between the ones available and I am looking into a mould for a proper bullet and I hope this will fix it but I can't be the first to have this problem. 

What can people tell me about this problem?

[Arizona Trooper]

Spencers are very picky about cartridge OAL. I shoot a cut down 50-70 Lyman 515141 mold in 56-50. It feeds best with an OAL of 1.67". Make some dummy rounds at about 1.7" and give them a try. Shorten in steps of about .01" until they feed well. Good luck!

[Herbert]

try lenthing to OAL to 1.6,photo of bulet would help

[Herbert]

thinking back when i put my S&S block in it did the same thing fix was to stone a slight bevel on leading edge of block you dont need much,this makes block slide down face of bullet forcing it back into magizine

[Roscoe Coles]

Thanks Troop, I will do that.  It looked like they were short to me but I didn't know what the ideal was.  I saw that the 56-56 was 1.545 so I thought it would be about there but it didn't work. 

Herbert,
Good tip on putting a radius on the block, that would help a bit and keep it from biting in.  It is not the correct bullet, just one I had on hand to fire and see what happened to the case.

Anyway, despite the problems feeding, I took my wopping four rounds out to the range and shot them as single shots.  They all went off.  The front sight seems to be a little short (shooting high as far as my 4 shots can tell) but with Kentucky windage I hit a tennis ball at about 15 yards.  I got some blow-by but I didn't crimp them at all so this was probably due to relatively low case pressure. 

At long last I have a dirty barrel.   I am very pleased and looking forward to getting the right bullet!.

[Mossyrock]

At long last I have a dirty barrel.   I am very pleased and looking forward to getting the right bullet!.

Roscoe,

Heat up the lead pot and keep watching the road!  Pony Express rider dispatched to your location!

[Roscoe Coles]

Hey Mossyrock:
   Thanks, I am looking forward to it.  I will let you know when it comes.  Now I have to get some more cases!

Roscoe

[geo]

would someone please describe in more detail putting a bevel on the block or radiusing same? i am not familiar with the procedure or the terminology? thanks in advance. geo.

[Herbert]

when you get S&S block it is very well finished ,this leaves sharp edges to edges,the front top of spencer block has to have a small radious on it ,this aplys to new spencers too,or block will dig into bullets when being scikeld through magizine,it only needs a small radious you can do this with a stone just enough to stop edge from being sharp ,then instead of cuting into bullets it will slide bullet back into magizine smoothly

[Colt Fanning]

Hi,
I shoot an 1860 mod. Spencer rebarreled to a .512 bullet.  I have tried several bullets and found the one cast by
the Romano Mold to work very well.  It was designed for Spencers. As mentioned the overall length is critical
in the spencer.  Too long and the rim of the first round will not clear the magazine.  Too short and the bullet of the next round will
be gouged by the breech block rather than being forced back into the magazine.  With my gun and bullet the overall
length must be between 1.550 and 1.630 in order to load.  Since the stages I shoot call for more than 7 rounds, I have to load some rounds single shot.  I mike each bullet and the ones that are out of tolerance I shoot as single shot rounds.
Regards
Colt

[.56/50 Iron]

I use Lyman 518145, 350 grains in soft lead, sized to .512" . The Spencer is picky when it comes to the overall length of the cartridge. My length is 1.580". I load a round and mike it. Load a round and mike it. 42 grains of Swiss FFg fills the case to just about the right depth to sit the bullet right on top of the powder and get the correct cartridge length. When the bullet seats, there might be a little pressure on the powder, not much. The overall length can be .001 or so under the 1.580" length and it will still feed from the tube. Over this length and it will jam.
.56/50 Iron

[.56/50 Iron]

Roscoe:   Maybe I should not say anything yet as I can't test what I am going to talk about yet as my Spencer is not back from the Dayton warranty facililty. I have noticed this same nick put in the slope of the bullet nose by the leading edge of the top of the breechblock. I regulated the overall length of the cartridge that was first out of the tube and ready to chamber. But, you know what, I finally decided that this was not happening to the first bullet tip. It was happening to the next round in the tube, I think... (All my dummies had a mark on the bullet from the breechblock edge and I did not come up with this second cartridge theory until a little while ago. Another member suggested dulling the very sharp edge of the breech block so it treats the lead slug more gently. This did work somewhat, but did not cure the problem for me. I am using Lyman bullet #518145, weighs 350 grains in pure lead. The edge of the block really cuts into pure lead---and stops the action. I slowly came to the conclusion that perhaps the OAL of the cartridge I was playing with may have been correct, and I would never know it if the edge of the block kept cutting into the slug! So I decided to cast some bullets out of the harder wheelweight metal I have. Bullet weight of these went down to about 344 grains. Made up some dummies using the harder metal. While the touching of the top edge of the block continued a little bit, the action became a lot smoother. As I recall, my overall length is about 1.6" or so (I'm in my classroom now and my records are at home). I cast some bullets up last Sunday using linotype metal. This stuff is hard and the bullet weight dropped to 337 grains! My theory is that the breechblock edge is no longer going to cut into the sloping edge of the bullet tip. If the bullet of the second cartridge in the tube is a little too far forward and is getting caught a little by the closing block as it is pushing the first cartridge into the chamber, the edge of the block should just slide over the surface of the bullet in cartridge number two, pushing the cartridge back into the tube, basically ignoring it as it chambers the first round. We always hear about operating the Spencer "firmly". I just don't think it needs to be operated this way. If the harder bullet allows what I have written to happen, the action should be as smooth as chambering only one round from the tube! I may be premature with this idea. My bullets are cast and I am going to make some dummies tonight using these hard slugs. What difference does it make if the bullets are hard if they work? I want to remain as true to the original material as I can, but it makes no matter to me how hard a bullet is going through target paper if the the accuracy is there and the action works with ease. I could find no record of anyone trying this with the slug they are using. I will put the idea to a test when my carbine returns.
.56/50 Iron

[Herbert]

hard cast bullets do inprove feeding although OAL is still very inportant,size hard bullets 2 thou over groove size