Trail Boss

[curdog]

Rowdy have you done any more shooting with trail boss powder? How's  the accuracy with this powder?

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Curdog
I have shot this powder ,  and if you are going to use smokeless it's my pick . The boys at IMR  Hodgdon
have a Great product here . I try to get the velocities close to those of black powder and leave it at that .
One great thing about this powder it was designed to have more powder in the case than air space . The rule of thumb is to fill 70% of the case . *** But do not compress it that is a bad thing .*** remember that is 70% of the case under the bullet .
If you try it let me know what you think about it . Good Luck and have a safe Hunt .

[Grizzly Adams]

Curdog
I have shot this powder ,  and if you are going to use smokeless it's my pick . The boys at IMR  Hodgdon
have a Great product here . I try to get the velocities close to those of black powder and leave it at that .
One great thing about this powder it was designed to have more powder in the case than air space . The rule of thumb is to fill 70% of the case . *** But do not compress it that is a bad thing .*** remember that is 70% of the case under the bullet .
If you try it let me know what you think about it . Good Luck and have a safe Hunt .

Rowdy, what kind of velocity and accuracy are you getting with the Trail Boss? 

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Griz
The groups have been about a 1 3/4 at 40 yards off sand bags . The velocities were in the 1100 fps up to
1200+ I tried several loads . If the weather works I plan on shooting a few rounds tomorrow . I will post my findings then .
If a person is going to shoot smokeless I think this is a Excellent choice . But there aint no BOOM and SMOKE . 

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Howdy Pards
The sun was shining bright and the wind was howling . I did chronograph the loads that I had tried they were at 1165 fps
with 14.2 grains of Trail Boss .I think I may try to bump up to 15.0 my goal is to run in the 1200+ range . Also this was done using Jamison cases , Ten X uses the Bertram cases and they hold less powder so watch out if you use Bertram cases
  ***** Remember to not COMPRESS this powder ***********

[Dirty Brass]

Save me some research if you would. What is the benefit of TB over other smokeless powders? I haven't seen a lot of that in my local shops here...

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Dirty Brass
What I've read about this powder was what got me interested in it . It was designed to fill over 50% of the case with powder and for a smokeless powder the pressure is mild . I have used it and it works good . But I try to keep my velocities at the black powder level !300 fps.  I have loaded 45 lc and 44wcf and will load some 45-70 ( trying to created a Trapdoor Carbine load ) .
Hope I have answered your questions ,   if not let me know and I will . I have been loading 14.2 grains and it fills 60% of the case .

[Dirty Brass]

So, filling more of the case lends to better ignition and burning?  Is that it? It's not enough to prevent bullet colllapse if the crimp isn't tight enough, and obviously you'd use more powder by volume over the others. I don't know what the the price comparison would be against 5744, unique, 2400, or any of the other used powders. I guess I haven't found out what the draw is to TB. Do people use fillers with it too? Pardon my stupidity here - I'm just trying to get a grasp on the benefits of using Trail Boss......


Update to post....

OK I looked at some of the data and info on this powder, and did some reading. I think I have an understanding of this powder now, and it's merits for CAS loads. If leaning towards smokeless loads, this has it's place...

[Longhunter]

  Brian Pearce lists a load in the #49 manual of 14.8 grs. of Trail Boss in a 22" barrel Chappy. The volocity is listed at 1256 fps.
Not sure what the fps would be in a 28" barrel .

I would like to try some Trail Boss, but i am having a hard time finding it. Seems everyone is out........

[Grizzly Adams]

  Brian Pearce lists a load in the #49 manual of 14.8 grs. of Trail Boss in a 22" barrel Chappy. The volocity is listed at 1256 fps.
Not sure what the fps would be in a 28" barrel .

I would like to try some Trail Boss, but i am having a hard time finding it. Seems everyone is out........

Seems like everyone is out of almost everything related to guns!   My local dealer pard has started rationing powder and primers, just to make sure he has some to sell to his regular clientele.  He put the policy in place after a fella walked into his shop and noticed that he had a good supply of reloading supplies.  Fella says, "I'm gonna make your day."  Pard says, "Oh, how's that?" Fella says, " I'm gonna buy everything you have."

Uh......that would be a "NO!"

[larryo_1]

Rowdy and Grizz:

Okay, I went and got a can of this Trail Boss to try in my 45-75 this morning.  The stuff only comes in 9 ounce batches but not too spendy.  Spent 13 bucks for the can.  Now,  I will be using my Hoch 350 grain bullets and both redone 348 cases and 50 AK cases.  So, where should I start out at?

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Larryo 1
Howdy,  I have only loaded 45-60 but what Hodgdon will tell you is to is . Take a case and and mark it to where the bullet is seated at ( the bottom of the bullet )now fill the case up to the line and then weigh the powder and start your load at 70% I am guessing that would be about 14.0 grains BUT that is a guess . Use a good heavy crimp .

Today I fired  the 15.0 load and they were in the 1215 fps range I like this load and hope to put on paper this weekend . 

[Longhunter]

  larryo-1,         

For the 45-75 the starting load for Trail Boss is listed at 11.5 grs. and the max is at 15.5. 
This should give you a range. Start at the low end and give it a try. The rifle it was loaded for is a Chappy 26" barrel.
Cases used are Jamison. Bullit 330 grn. Lyman HP.

[larryo_1]

Thanks guys.  I will be for trying out this data soons I get caught up.

[larryo_1]

Rowdy:
I did like you said and using the 70% rule it came out to 13.3 grains so your guess of 14 was close so I loaded up 5 rounds at 14 and used my Lee factory crimp.  Now will try them at 25 yards as I like to use that as a preliminary test range.  If they work as good as the 22 grain load of 2400 then I go on out to 50 and beyond.  Sounds like the velocities are in the same range as my load of 2400.  That load of 2400 and the Swiss 1½ load of 76 grains are both comparable in accuracy at 50 and 100 so maybe this stuff will be as good?  Boy that stuff is sure light and fluffy! 

[curdog]

I think I'll order some today. Found a place on the net that say they have in stock. I can order it pay the hazmat fee and still get it for less than what I have found it in stores around here. If I only got one or two cans it would be cheaper locally but I will try to a couple of powders and make worth while.

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Howdy Pards
It looks like mini cherrios  .

[larryo_1]

Rowdy:
Well, I loaded up 5 rounds of 14.0 grains and they shot, off the bench at 25 yards into a 1.45 inch group and below the bull.  then I upped to 15.0 grains and they were in the bottom of the 10 ring and shot a 1.3 inch group then I decided what the hell and went up to 15.5 grains and they were all in the 10 ring and measured 0.83 inches so that will be what I will go for at 50 yards.  There was no signs of any pressure and they all fell out just like they fell in.  So if that 15.5 grain load works as good as the 2400 well then I gots me a winner.   You must remember, tho, that this was in MY rifle and I can't say what it would do in anybody elses.

[w44wcf]

BE VERY CAREFUL WITH TRAILBOSS IN YOUR 1876 RIFLES!
This is a fast burning powder with a fast pressure spike.  You will not be able
to achieve original '76 velocities without exceeding the strength of the '76!
Stay safe!

Unfortunately there is no published data for any of the '76 cartridges.

Hodgdon's .45-70 data shows
300 gr. bullet
-14.0 / 1,199 / 14,100 CUP - I would not exceed this in a .45-60.
-16.5 / 1,285 / 20,900 CUP - definitely above the level for a '76

405 gr. bullet
- 12.0 grs / 971 / 24,500 CUP! - definitely above the level for a '76
- 13.0 grs. / 1007 / 25,600 CUP! - definitely above the level for a '76

For a 350 gr. bullet in a .45-75 based on the above data,
-13.0 =approx 19,000 CUP - do not exceed!

Stay safe pards!
w44wcf
 

[curdog]

Rowdy I was looking at the hodgden site and the pressures are higher with trail boss and at lower velocities than H4895 and H4198. Is the pressure peak different than the other powders and this is why they recomend it for the 1876? Or is there another reason?