Rebuilding an Original Spencer and Installing the New Taylor's extractor

[Roscoe Coles]

   

   Overall picture of my rebuilt Spencer
 


  Rebuilding an Original Spencer and installing the New Taylor's Ejector

More than 15 years ago after handling an immaculate 1860 Spencer purchased by a wealthy friend I decided I needed a Spencer of my own.   Unlike my friend, I didn't have a small fortune to spend and I wanted one that I could shoot.  I knew that S&S made a  center-fire conversion block and there were a couple of reproduction Blakeslee boxes around but at that time there were no copies.    However, at the time, S&S listed and had a fairly good selection of original Spencer parts in stock at decent prices and they carried replacement wood. 

Since I could not afford a good gun I thought I could find a really bad one and bring it back to life.  Working, as I was, as a manager at a prominent gun shop in Sacramento that dealt heavily in used and antique guns I was pretty well placed to find the kind of gun I needed.  But the gun actually came from my best friend "Hangtown Frye."  Talking one day about my desire for a Spencer and he said, "I have one but its in terrible shape."  A quick inspection showed that it was an 1867 built by Spencer in Boston that had almost all the parts, but he was right, it was in very rough condition.  But the price was right as he wanted to trade it to me for a reproduction Patterson revolver I was sporting around at the time.   After handing over the Paterson I took the gun home for a closer inspection.

Not much got better with the second look.  The wood was in terrible shape.  The stock had been carved on and split while the forearm was missing a large chunk.  Some small parts, like the carbine ring and the rear sight were missing and the lever had been bent and repaired by a blacksmith. 

The rust was the real kicker.  For those of you who have never spent time on a horse, horse sweat is one of the most corrosive substances on earth.  It will eat blue and cause rust like nobody's business.  I once took a reblued trapdoor carbine for a week-long movie shoot and came back with almost no blue on the gun!  Well the Spencer had seen a hard life and the entire left side of the gun (the side which rests against the horse when you are carrying it on a carbine sling) was heavily rusted.  The barrel was by far the worst with deep rust pits that got worse towards the muzzle.  The rust had migrated into the bore and at the crown the rust had eaten almost half the barrel away on the left side.  Just for laughs I punched the bore and it looked like the inside of 100-year-old sewer pipe!

The upshot was that I had basically got myself a usable receiver and lock; just about everything else was shot.  The first problem was to get a good barrel on the gun.  Luckily my father is a retired master machinist and industrial arts teacher and I grew up in a machine shop.  I gave him a call and proposed making a new barrel and he was foolish enough to agree.  I bought a Douglas .512 black powder barrel blank with a 1/36 inch twist and set off to his shop to start work. 
   
We did the job on a 10" South bend Lathe but it didn't not have the taper attachment so we cut the taper by hand using a set of established sizes that duplicated an original barrel at critical points on the barrel.  We would machine it down to just over the desired size then cut the taper between two points duplicating the original taper.   The barrel blank was tough and it was difficult to keep it from chattering in the middle where the most flex is.  We used a steady rest but we also had to use an improvised floating rest opposite the tool to cut down on chatter.  This consisted of about 20 inches of a hickory stick, one end hooked on the carriage with me pulling on the other.  Shade tree machining if there ever was any but the job came out very nice.  Dad swore he would never do another so I have had to do all my own barrel work from then on!

Several things are worth commenting on about making the barrel.  First, because I was doing Civil War stuff at the time I did not duplicate the 1867 barrel but copied the longer 1860 barrel.  Second, there were no chamber reamers, dies or case available for the 56-50 at the time so we cut the chamber with a boring bar for 50-70 cases cut 1.1 inches long. Third, the front sight on an original Spencer carbine is integral, not soldered on.  This meant that the sight was cut so that it would line up in the proper place once the gun was installed.  This is doable on a mass production line where you can do the math and make it like you want it but its crazy to try on a one off.  Our solution was to leave a ring on the barrel at the correct location the size of the front sight.  Once we had threaded the barrel and installed it we marked it with a witness mark so we would know where it had to go back to then flattened the side of the barrel near the chamber, cut the dovetail for the rear sight and marked the position of the front sight on the ring.  Using a hacksaw and a series of files we cut the rest of the ring away leaving only the front sight in the correct position.  Time consuming and if I did it again I would think about just silver soldering it on.

      The finished front sight


Over the next few years I started gathering parts, including a replacement set of wood, a complete original rear sight, a new lever, the S&S center-fire conversion.  Not everything fit well.  The wood was slightly undersized in some places and slightly over sized in others but it was not awful.  I would still like to get a better set.  Interestingly, most of the parts for the forearm are interchangeable or extremely close to the Sharps carbine, supposedly because this made it possible for Spencer to buy some parts during production.

One of the most trying parts to fit was the S&S center-fire block.  The block was a little larger that the window and it was easy to stone it to the proper size.  The problem came when the block was assembled in the gun.  For some reason it would bind.  Measurements showed that all the parts fit fine separately but when they were together something was out of spec.  After some head scratching it was discovered that the pin on the bottom of the new center-fire block was just a few thousandths off center.  A few minutes with a stone and it was running fine.

During the barrel rebuild we carefully duplicated the original extractor, which turned out to be little more than a waste of time.  To be kind, it just did not work with the new shells.  This caused a long delay in the project while I thought over different ways to adapt it and make it work.  Nothing came to mind and though the gun was all together it was not functional and it went on the back burner for years. 

In the mean time copies of the Spencer came out and I thought of just buying one of them.  The project got back on track when I had a chance to take apart a Taylor's Spencer and compare the parts to an original gun belonging to a friend.  To my surprise the reproduction parts were very close to the originals, needing only some minor adjustment.  More importantly, the Taylor's gun had an excellent extractor design that could be easily adapted to an "original" gun.  It took a little looking but I was able to get all the parts I needed from Taylor's.  These included the lower block, the cartridge guide, the ejector, the pins to hold the guide and ejector in and cartridge follower (or guide) which is the lever in the top of the Spencer action.  Taylor's did not have the ejector spring in stock so I used a small spring I got in a spring pack at Home Depot. 

The lower block needed to be modified before it would work.  First, the hole that accepts the "pin" on the bottom of the block was just a little too small but it was a standard size and it was easy to drill it out.  Despite being color case hardened, a high-speed drill cut it fine.  The hole for the pivot bolt was also slightly smaller than original and I could either drill the block out to take the original or make a bolt to fit it.

   The two lower blocks with the extractors installed, the original block above and the Taylor's block with the S&S block and lever installed.


  Unfortunately, the original pivot bolt was not a standard size so I did not have a drill that would work.  I didn't want to ream it as the color case while not truly hard would not have been good for my adjustable reamers.  Instead I made a new pivot bolt that fit the original frame and replacement lower block.

   The two pivot bolts, the original on the bottom and the replacement on the top, just a few thousandths difference.  Note the slight shoulder near the head of the replacement.


The biggest problem was that the S&S block was too long to fit into the lower block.   To fix this I had a friend open up the back of the lower block about 1/16 of an inch on his mill.  This allowed the block to fit it perfectly. 

Unfortunately, the reproduction cartridge follower was not interchangeable with the original cartridge followers.  It is shorter and the back portion, which rests on the spring that presses it down, is not the right shape and would not work.  However, it has a wider and deeper groove in it to accommodate the wider and taller extractor used on the Taylor's gun.  I could weld up the back of it to make the correct shape but I had a better solution.

    The three cartridge followers, the 1860/65 model on the left, the 1867 model in the middle and the Taylor's on the left.
   

The three cartridge followers from the side, the 1860/65 model on the left, the 1867 model in the middle and the Taylor's on the left.


The reproduction part is actually adapted from the cartridge follower used on the 1867 and I happen to have the original one that came on the gun.  It was in very poor shape, bent, rusty and missing the stop that allows the gun to be switched to a single shot.  However, I spent some time cleaning it up, straightening it, cut the slot to allow the new, longer extractor to pass through and filed out a new, non functional stop (it is made so it can not swing from side to side like the original) so that the cartridges would not get caught in the step where the stop mounts.  It works fine, though it is a little sloppy from side to side.  I may shim it or try to replace it later.

   The 1867 follower with the new made part to replace the original, broken stop.


I only had to make one permanent modification to the gun to make this work.  The small groove in the bottom of the barrel that provides clearance for the cartridge guide on the original gun had to be deepened to allow the new extractor to hook on the rim of the cartridge.  Two minutes with a needle file and the job was done.  I don't have the original barrel here so I don't know if this groove was deeper on the originals.   

   Bottom of gun showing the slot


Once the slot was deepened I reshaped the Taylor's extractor to make better contact with the rim and eject it more firmly.  This consisted of flattening the back of the extractor (it comes curved) and filing a flat on the end so that the ejector contacts the rim with a square surface.  This also made the extractor a little shorter which was not bad.  I am searching for a lighter spring for the extractor as it only needs to lift the extractor to make contact with the rim.  Still as it sits the new extractor throws the cartridges right out of the gun in a very pleasing manner.
 
   Block showing the original shape of the Taylor's extractor.


   Block showing reshaped Taylor's extractor.



In any case I now have a functional gun based on an original Spencer.  It has been a fun, though slow project and though I am not sure I would do it again, I had fun doing it.

   Right side of action


   Left side of action showing pitting from rust



   Bottom of action, with Taylor's lower block installed

[Herbert]

love that work on front sight,notised you have a saler cutoff fited,have any trouble machining slot in lower block for cutoff ,i modified my extractor for new rifle nealy identical to what you did and it improvd mine as well,very good work you should be proud of it

[Roscoe Coles]

love that work on front sight,notised you have a saler cutoff fited,have any trouble machining slot in lower block for cutoff ,i modified my extractor for new rifle nealy identical to what you did and it improvd mine as well,very good work you should be proud of it

Hey great!  I thought I was the first to do this but great minds think alike.  The original shape of the extractor as provided was poor and would not hook the rim.  After changing the shape it is very positive.  I am looking for a lighter spring for it as the friction area is much smaller after the reshaping and it does not need a strong spring to work.   I didn't machine the groove in the block.  The Stabler cut off is there to keep the block from swinging out the bottom when its operated hard because the stop on the trigger guard is a bit worn.  As soon as I come up with a fix for that I will take it off.  Besides, you don't normally have the stabler cut off and the later cartridge follower cut off, and since I am forced by the conversion to use the cartridge follower one the Stabler will go.  Its a bit of a hybrid as it is but it works like a champ.  Next stop the firing range!

It was fun to do but a ton of work.  It fought me all the way but I feel like I really know the Spencer!  I would love to get a rifle action and build a sporter in 56-46 (50-70 or .348 win cut 1.1 inches long and necked to .458) with an octagon barrel, fancy wood and a wiping stick.  High cool but a ton more work.  Still, you have to have projects!

[Bead Swinger]

That was a great piece of work - you must've felt great when it was finally done. How'd it shoot?

[Herbert]

i was wundering what the searial number is i am trying to figer out wen and how comon the lane extractor was ,it seems to be the scarest of the extractor types,any on with 1867 or NM spencers i would licke to hear from you,stating searial number,extractor type and modle

[Roscoe Coles]

Herbert
  The serial number  is 9803X and its a Spencer /Boston gun. 

Bead Swinger
  I am working on getting a load together for it as we speak.  I am looking forward to getting it to the range.

[Herbert]

searial number puts it near end of 1867 range 90000-103000 , must be close to change to lane extractor,if harf were fited with lane extractor,presuming they were done in order