New member asking about "short-stroke".

[Camille Eonich]

I know I'll catch a lot of heat for this, but I have never been a fan of short stroking for a couple of reasons.
First off, it's not what they had in the Old West, secondly in my opinion, it alters the appearance of the rifle, not with the action closed, but it sure does when the shooter is working the action.
But that's just my opinion.

Actually I have seen short stroked '73s compared with original '73s that were unaltered and short stroking one gets it closer to original than they come from the factory. 

[Camille Eonich]

In other words, there is a definable difference between folks like you and me, and those who are proven champions.  They could beat us with completely unaltered firearms, folks, and not even break a sweat.  The difference, besides lots-and-lots of practice, is a physical skill that can only be found in one of a thousand (or so).

Regards,

-- Nighteyes (the slow and steady)

Exactly!  On top of that a good action job does more for time than the actual short stroke does.  It's just that while a smith has it they may as well go all the way.  The shorter stroke really does make the rifle more enjoyable to shoot.

[Smokin Gator]

The original reason given for short stroking the 73's was to make the stroke equivalent with a Marlin.  Before the short stroked 73's were developed you saw a lot more Marlins at matches.  The discussions about short stroked 73's went on for a long time before anyone tried to say that there was a difference between original 73's and the Uberti's. If there was a significant, obvious difference between the two, that fact would have been brought up and obvious from day one.
There are slight differences between the length of the lever throw on both originals and the copies.  Some Uberti's may have a slightly longer lever throw them some original 73's.  The short stroke work now being done is way past taking up a little slack in the action.  Now, I don't have any problem with short stroked guns being used, but the work has gone waay past shortening the stroke to be similar to a Marlin or to make them equivalent to any original 73's out there that may have a very slight shorter stroke than an Uberti. Eventually I'll probably get one myself, but so far I've stuck with my 44-40 Marlin.  Smokin Gator 

[Devil Anse Hatfield]

I spent an afternoon at the Guns of Aug. shoot. Watching moving from stage to stage watching how things worked . How guns were handled, How targets were shot. How things run.
It was a hoot .
Im new to the sport however far from new to the guns.
My point being I dont know who I saw shooting . Dont care But what I did see were  more than a few shooters using short strokes.
that didnt function well/ or they were fumbled by the shooter.  The long stroke guns all seam to have been shot well.
What does that mean. Something I guess.  Several things , People having gun work done that cant use it, Or shooters that had a bad stage or 2. Pressure or just new shooters with fancy action work cause the champs have it.

Dont get me wrong . Im a firm believer in a smooth action. I will do all I can to make my cowboy guns function far better than they came out of the box. But I dont need a short stroke at my level of shooting.

Devil

[Smokin Gator]

"Actually I have seen short stroked '73s compared with original '73s that were unaltered and short stroking one gets it closer to original than they come from the factory."

Short stroked Uberti's are only "closer" to original 73's?  If that were true the original 73's would be illegal in SASS.  They would have a shorter stroke than is allowed.   Smokin Gator

 

[Camille Eonich]

Short stroked Uberti's are only "closer" to original 73's?  If that were true the original 73's would be illegal in SASS.  They would have a shorter stroke than is allowed.   Smokin Gator
 

Closer to the length than they come from the factory.  That doesn't mean that the current rules that SASS has does not allow for a shorter stroke than the original 73's have.  Personally, I would not short stroke a rifle to the extent that SASS allows.  As pointed out earlier, it is a lever, ever time you take something away in the equation it shows up somewhere else.  The links that I saw that allowed for the shortest stroke that SASS allows at this time required too much force for my liking.

I understand that at the time that I saw them they were still in design though.

I suspect that you knew what I was saying though ...

[Smokin Gator]

Whenever I eventually do get one I would only want the second generation or one of the short stroke jobs that doesn't get it down to the minimum allowed. Isn't the difference between the lever throw of a stock Uberti and an original 73, very little, if any?  I haven't really seen any evidence that even the majority of Uberti's have a noticeabley longer throw than the originals. If there is a difference it is insignificant compared to the level that the guns are short stroked now.  As I said, I don't have a problem with the short stroked guns, just that I don't think the reason they are being done is to make them equal to the originals.  Smokin Gator

[Camille Eonich]

As I stated earlier, an Uberti with the 2nd generation links have very comparable throws to an original Win '73.  At least the 2 that I saw compared were within fractions of each other.  And no I'm not saying that's why Cody and Lone Dude started working on the short strokes just that when all was said and done it just turned out that way.

[Adirondack Jack]

I've had a long-running discussion about this with a "big name" CAS smith, and he tells me that very often folks go from a 2nd generation SS kit to a 3rd, only to dislike the added effort required, and go back to the 2nd gen.  This is simply the way the toggle link rifles work.  You're asking a shorter stroke to produce the same work (move the carrier and bolt the same distance) with less "input" motion.  It's like "choking up" on a jack handle; ok if yer strong and not in a  hurry, but will wear ya out if ya try to force it.  The longer stroke is like the long jack handle; takes more motion, but is much easier to operate.

Lemme point out that while the above is immutable fact with a 66 or 73, the same is not true for the Marlin short stroke as accomplished by Spur.  This is because the Marlin is direct drive (the bolt is driven directly by the lever with no links in between) necessitating a shorter BOLT THROW as well as a shorter LEVER throw when modified.  The effort required to operate a short stroked Marlin really is LESS than the effort to operate a slicked "full throw" Marlin, because we're moving the bolt a proportionately shorter distance (doing less work) with the short stroked gun.

Further, Spur has pioneered some lightening techniques to skeletonize the bolt on the ultimate race guns (Deuce Steven's rifle is one), further reducing effort AND further reducing the pounding of the mechanism when run very hard and fast by a guy who HAS pounded the links out of a 73 in fairly short order.....

Even without the skeletonized bolt, the short stroked Marlin is a thing of beauty.  The cycling is so effortless it's unreal.  EVERYBODY who has ever shot or even cycled one of mine has grinned.  As one shooter so aptly put it, "Now THAT'S what I'm talkin about" 

[Professor Honeyfuggler]

I've had a long-running discussion about this with a "big name" CAS smith, and he tells me that very often folks go from a 2nd generation SS kit to a 3rd, only to dislike the added effort required, and go back to the 2nd gen. 

From what I've heard locally, that's especially the case with aluminum carriers, which were developed to try to reduce the additional lever force needed once you shorten the stroke. Lotsa Pards around here swear by their short strokes, but I haven't met one yet who had installed the aluminum carrier who kept it.

Dunno, mebbe that's what you meant by 2nd gen vs 3rd gen, but that specific detail sticks out for me.

[Camille Eonich]

I love my aluminum carrier.  Lots of people around here use one and we have more than a few world and regional champions that we shoot with.  The aluminum is sooooo much easier to clean than the brass one and that's really about the only difference I can tell with it.   

[Professor Honeyfuggler]

Just reporting what I hear talking to folks at shoots around here in central Texas. Not a single person has said they liked it. And my gunsmith advised me agin it. 

Besides, they really do look crappy compared to the real thing, IMO.