'73win....thinking out loud here......

Marshal Deadwood · March 27, 2009, 04:24:22 PM

I shoot a '73win (Cimarron/Uberti)...30" barrel and that is NOT what I'd chose if I'd known more about CAS shooting.

I was pondering 'IF' I can save enough dollars,,or maybe even trade and make a deal with the devil,,on a new '73win in 44-40 (calibre I'm sure of),,,,and now I am pondering..

20" short rifle with cresent buttplate ,,,,but some winchestere folks say that is a fantasy rifle,,that NO 20" 'rifles' existed with cresent butts',,,that if it was 20" back in the day,,it was a 'carbine' and had 'carbine' butt.
That leaves me with option #2,,,the 19" barrel carbine with round barrel. Will the 19"carbine hold 10 44WCF rounds ?
Lastly,,do any of you have the half oct/half round '73win ? What length does that deal come in ,,,24" only ?
Just ponderin' out loud here guys,,on the best 'manuverable' 73'win for CAS.
I can always have my 30" cut down to desired length I suppose,,but it's a .45colt and I kinda like the 44WCF for the 'what they really were' slant.

MD

Will Ketchum · March 27, 2009, 04:41:42 PM

Well Marshal I don't know what Winchester experts you have been talking to but apparently they never heard of the "short rifle" which was pretty much as you describe it. In those days of "customer knows best" you could order just about anything you wanted from Winchester, (also from Colt as far as that goes). This is according to the Madis book, considered the bible of the Winchester. 20 inch rifles were not uncommon.

Will Ketchum

Marshal Deadwood · March 27, 2009, 04:45:09 PM

Thanks , Will,,,I pretty much thought there HAD to be 'short rifles'....and 'back in the day',,there was even more done to accomodate the customer than there is now.

I appreciate it. A 20" rifle might just be the word of the day. IF, I can scrape money up at some point.

That 30" barrel is just horrible at a SASS shoot.

MD

Bangor Dan · March 27, 2009, 04:55:22 PM

To answer your question regarding whether or not the 19" carbine will hold 10 rounds of 44 wcf, yes it does. Thats what I use for CAS, and I love it. Fast handling and I seem to be able to get it on target easily.

Bangor Dan

Sir Charles deMouton-Black · March 27, 2009, 05:17:26 PM

My "original" '73 rifle was cut down to 20 " by the "original" owner. I know, 'cause I bought it from his son. Octagon barrel and crescent buttplate with a trap for the jointed cleaning rod that came with it. It holds 11 cartridges in the mag. If a stage calls for 12, I crank the lever and stick another one in the mag before I start shooting.

So! It was done, despite what the experts said should not happen.

Coffinmaker · March 27, 2009, 08:10:33 PM

Well ........... Lets get technical. If you can think it up, Winchester built it for somebody. A Rather large collection of Winchesters at the Colorado Antique Gun Show a few years back and an entire display unit (10 feet long, 8 feet high) with nothing but "short" guns built on order by Winchester. There were several rifles (octagonal barrel) with 14 inch barrels and Winchester was know to have made several with 12 inch barrels.
The shotgun style butt plate was also very common as were wildly varying styles of sights. If we can think of it, Winchester built several of "it."
I don't recommend building one with a 14 inch barrel today though. The feds would become very interested in your address!!
My personal "Trapper" rifle (octagonal barrel) has a 16 inch barrel and is very very COOL!!

The Half Round offered by Uberti is a 24" but the mag tube is only 16." That combination does not have the double taper spring (at least it didn't use to) nor the bored out plug for 10 round capacity. I haven't had a recent manufacture Half Round in the shop for work, so I can't attest if the "new" build guns have been modified for 10 rounds. Nifty looking gun though.

Coffinmaker

Driftwood Johnson · March 27, 2009, 08:23:59 PM

Howdy

Here is a quote from The Winchester Handbook, by George Madis, regarding Model 1873 barrels.

"Standard barrels for caribines were twenty inches in length, of the somewhat rapid taper style as found on the 66. Special lengths were offered for carbines in any length from fourteen to nineteen inches. Some records remain of carbines with twelve inch barrels.

Rifles have twenty-four inch round barrel as standard. Octagon barrels were considered an extra, but Winchester usually sold the guns with octogon barrels to dealers at the same price as round barrels. Round or octogon barrels were offed in all lengths from fourteen inches to thirty-six inches. Odd lengths, such as seventeen or nineteen inches were produced on special order, although the special and standard lengths were in two inch increments."

End of quote.

It should be noted that barrel length is not the defining factor of a carbine or a rifle, in 19th Century Winchester terminology. Rifles and carbines were defined by features such as stock style and the method of hanging the magazine from the barrel.

Rifles had crescent shaped buttplates, a forend cap, and the magazine was hung from the barrel by a dovetailed hanger.

Carbines had a relativly flat buttplate, no forend cap, and the magazine was attached by barrel bands.

ndnchf · April 02, 2009, 06:01:56 AM

MD

Take a look here. Go about 1/2 way down the list, look for "Winchester Model 1873 Shortened Rifle 44-40". Its an original that has been cut down to 21" for a pretty good price:

http://fulmersantiqueguns.com/listing.asp

Could be what you are lookin' for

Dirty Brass · April 02, 2009, 08:07:01 AM

Quote from: Marshal Deadwood on March 27, 2009, 04:45:09 PM
Thanks , Will,,,I pretty much thought there HAD to be 'short rifles'....and 'back in the day',,there was even more done to accomodate the customer than there is now.

I appreciate it. A 20" rifle might just be the word of the day. IF, I can scrape money up at some point.

That 30" barrel is just horrible at a SASS shoot.

MD

Kudows on the 30" bbl. I got a good deal on one awhile back and immediately chopped it down to 24". Now I'm thinkin' about shaving off a couple more inches, since my 1866 is 24". Or, like you, I can save the funds and look for a SRC later...but I don't like waiting

Abilene · April 05, 2009, 10:52:22 PM

In my 19" 44-40 carbine, I put two 250 grain bullets in the front end of the mag tube to give it a bit more weight out front, and it still holds ten rounds in the mag. But then, if it's authenticity you want the original Winchester carbines were 20" barrels, right? (although as mentioned they would make pretty much anything you wanted).

If you like the half-octagon barrel, another possiblity is Cimarron's "brush-popper" which is 18.5" barrel. Great balance. I'm even thinking of selling my 45LC 16" trapper in order to buy one in 45.

Deadeye Dick · April 06, 2009, 07:33:45 PM

Marshall Deadwood,
I have a Taylor's 73 Win in 44-40 with a 20 inch oct.barrel and I just love it. It's got the Rifle's good looks, holds 10 rounds, quick pointing and is a kick in the pants to shoot. You won't go wrong with a short barrel.
Deadeye Dick

RRio · May 08, 2009, 02:18:52 AM

Bump

Rube Burrows · May 10, 2009, 04:46:32 PM

Was the Winchester 73 in the famed "Billy the Kid" pic a 20" round barrel?

Blackpowder Burn · May 15, 2009, 07:41:48 AM

Marshall,

I've been shooting a Cimarron '73 Deluxe for about 8 years now. It is the half round, half octagon 24-inch barrel in 44-40. Not only is the rifle absolutely gorgeous, but shoots extremely well. I like the balance, but then I'm a rather large guy. You'll love the rifle, no matter what you decide.