.36 conicals for cap and ball revolver interest

[Pettifogger]

Pettifogger,

That's the same conical that I have too.  They work great in reamed chambers.  I've done it to more than a few guns with good results.  If you really want to use that conical, I'd gladly ream your chambers for you so it'll work.

That's what is so great about this wire.  People willing to help others.  Deadguy, thanks for the offer.  Right now I kind of like the tapered chambers.  That way if the round ball is off a little, they still seal.  I'm also trying to decide which guns to use for EOT and don't want to try something new before then.  But, THANKS a lot for the offer.

[Mako]

here's a wild thought.

What if a nice bullet similar in design to my .36 HB above, but without the HB aspect, but with a base ala the EPP-UG were made? It could be done ala the EPP, and designed with just enough rebate to start straight, but would still load with the cylinder in the gun.  A second version could be made with a longer rebated "tail", that would give the extra weight, but would either require the pistol's frame to be opened up, OR use of a loading stand.  With proper consideration of how much to rebate the tail section, one could accomodate the existing cylinders without reaming.  After all, so long as we have a couple of driving bands, well spaced as is the state of the art with the Big Lube designs, there is no reason that the tail cannot be undersized, as these BP revolvers, as used for CAS, will work just fine with such a projectile.

Hi Jack,
Feel free to pursue a lighter weight bullet, but I'm not on that course.  I'm making at least a 130 grain bullet (I'm even wondering if I can boost it to 140 gr and keep the velocity where it needs to be to meet or better 15 ft-lbs/sec of momentum).

I appreciate the comment, but  I don't know if many of us have need or a desire for a lightweight .36 caliber bullet.  I fact I'm not sure how many use the EPP-UG for its intended purpose.  I actually find more people use the ".44" EPP-UG in your .45 Cowboy loads or .45 Schofield loads than in C&B revolvers.  I know several  "gamers" (not really gamers but feel at a disadvantage against shooter using .38s) shooting .45 Colt and people who are using the carrier you sell for the '73s who use that bullet , but no one  who uses the bullet for C&B.  I'm sure there are a bunch out there,  but I don't shoot with any.

The cherry that was started today will cut a cavity for a bullet that will set about 3/8" above the cylinder face.  Do you have a pistol that you think it won't fit in the clearance cut?   I've got a pair of 51s and pair Leech and Rigdons I'm checking it out in.  I know it will fit my '61s, they have a huge clearance. they'd take a Snakebite if they were the right diameter.  Anyone shooting  some of the other Confederate copies couldn't fit anything without disassembly because they don't even the minimal conical bullet clearance like the 51s, but I can't address all pistols so they will have to shoot balls or load on a cylinder loader.

Regards,
Mako

[Mako]

Pettifogger,

That's the same conical that I have too.  They work great in reamed chambers.  I've done it to more than a few guns with good results.  If you really want to use that conical, I'd gladly ream your chambers for you so it'll work.

That's what is so great about this wire.  People willing to help others.  Deadguy, thanks for the offer.  Right now I kind of like the tapered chambers.  That way if the round ball is off a little, they still seal.  I'm also trying to decide which guns to use for EOT and don't want to try something new before then.  But, THANKS a lot for the offer.

Deadguy,
That is generous...What we need now is for someone to ream the chambers for any Cowboy who wants to shoot this new bullet.  If that were the case I would be contacting Lee tomorrow and paying the set up fee for a new bullet, that would make things incredibly simple.  It is almost what I had decided to do on my own.

This might seriously be an idea, a certificate for the cost of getting cylinders reamed could be part of the cost of the molds if we had a designated gunsmith.  Those that didn''t need it would buy the molds without.  It's simply shipping cylinders, no "muss or fuss," no logging.  Figure Priority Mail plus the cost of the work.  Anyone have a going rate on reaming 6 or 12 chambers?

Oh well in a perfect world...

Mako

[Mason Stillwell]

Mako


If you make a 36 boolit mould like the one in yer photo count me in for a mould.

I gots some 36's that I think this boolit would work just FINE in.

Mason (Whats in to boolit casting stuff) Stillwell

[Montana Slim]

I'd just be plum  tickled if'n Lee offered their 6-hole mold for .321, .380, and .454 RB.

Regards,
Slim

[Mako]

Mako
If you make a 36 boolit mould like the one in yer photo count me in for a mould.

I gots some 36's that I think this boolit would work just FINE in.

Mason (Whats in to boolit casting stuff) Stillwell

Mason,
When I get this worked out you're gonna be able to get molds through Dick Dastardly at his Big Lube^TM Black Powder Shooting Supplies site.  Dick has a reputation for service and quality, people look to him to meet their BP bullet needs.  I think letting him have it will make sure this bullet gets the widest distribution.

What kind of .36 cal pistol(s) do you have, and do you have any idea what your chamber diameters are?

Thanks,
Mako

[Adirondack Jack]

I'm just brainstorming.  I like light for caliber bullets, always have since I saw my ole man shoot .44 mag 110s over a compressed load of a powder I won't mention (it shouilda blew the gun up, and primer pockets only survived about 3 loadings) that didn't exit a skunk, yet puree'd it like it'd been through a blender.

I fully understand the idea of adding throw weight for the .36 C&B CAS guns, and yes, have seen folks "git robbed" when the boom of the BP masked the ding, and targets didn't wiggle.....

That's why I suggested a two-version design.

That said, another way to skin the "undersized chamber" cat would be to start a "reamer relay"/  Somebody spring for a reamer, and after using it, send it along to a series of pards who would pay a fee aimed at re-imbursing the original cost and paying for the eventual replacement.  A puffy envelope with a reamer in it would mail for next to nothing.....

[Mako]

That said, another way to skin the "undersized chamber" cat would be to start a "reamer relay"/  Somebody spring for a reamer, and after using it, send it along to a series of pards who would pay a fee aimed at re-imbursing the original cost and paying for the eventual replacement.  A puffy envelope with a reamer in it would mail for next to nothing.....

Jack,
I like the idea of the reamer relay.  I'm a graduate of CST among other things and we used to do that with chamber reamers.  A bunch of alumni got together and traded what we had like "time shares" plus a little to boot to cover resharpenings.  We could do something similar but we might have to have two or three sizes to match the groove diameters of different manufacturers plus a thousandths or two.

What we need is someone to act as the library.  We had that until the member that did it passed away then it sort of died out and it became more gunsmith to gunsmith.  I'm sure there are several people just on here that would want to ream their chambers.  Straight reamers are relatively cheap compared to chambering reamers but they can't be set back in regrinding.  I'll go for it...

Regards,
Mako

[Dick Dastardly]

Lots of good ideas flowing here.  I like the reamer idea.  Yes, the bullet design will happen.

I would ask this. . .

If the reamer could accompany a new mold and a deposit be required and a modest rental fee be asked, would this be acceptable to shooters with .36s that have undersize chambers compared to grove diameter?  Where are the competent gunsmiths that could do the work and make sure the reamer was returned?  Would there be enough continuity in .36 bore diameters from maker to maker to allow a compromise chamber reaming to work for all?

If need be, this could be a new thread so as not to clutter up Deadguy's thread.  What do you think Cuts?

DD-DLoS

[Deadguy]

I have reamers in both .375" and .377" sizes right now.  I normally charge $20 per cylinder at my little shop, but with a project like this, I think I can discount that rate a bit if there's a demand for it.

[Dick Dastardly]

Thanks Deadguy,

That's one in a row now.  How about some more gunsmiths weighing in?

DD-DLoS

[Mason Stillwell]

Mako

The ones that I am shooting most and have here with me on the surface of the moon are very old Pietta's.They are copies of Remington 58's
They have 6 and 1/2 inch barrels . My calipers are down in my little work building . I'll get them out and see what I come up with fer chamber size on Sunday.

Mason

[Mason Stillwell]

Well unless my eyes  are shot and my Dillon Caliper has went South. I get .365 on the 4 cylinders I have with me.

Pietta 36 /58 remingtons with .365 chambers.

Mason

[wargaming]

Newbie here.  I've been following this thread since it's inception and thought I might add my 2 cents on measurements.  Both of the Pietta 1851's I own were manufactured in 2007.  The four cylinders in my possession run .364 to .366 with Kobalt Digital Caliper's (variations due to unsteady hand or lack of experience using the things...  )

My two Uberti 1851's were manufactured 2008/2009 with chamber mouths reading .369 to .371.  I noticed the Pietta's shave about as much material from a .375 RB as the Uberti's do on a .380 RB... about a .010 ring.

Taking a piece of .368 dowl rod (for lack a bore gauge) and sliding it into an Uberti cylinder's chambers... show a variance in depth from 7/16 to 9/16 before refusing to go any further (due to taper) while being lightly twisted and gently pushed.

I'm a novice by any and all meanings of the word, but it would appear both manufacturer's cylinders could be reamed to .375 without any problems and I'd dearly love to get that taper removed from my Uberti cylinders so that my paper cartridges could be consistantly produced for both makes. 

[Deadguy]

Wargaming,

I'd be happy to ream those out to .375" for you.

[Pony Racer]

Pards - Deadguy did the reaming on my 1851 Pietta copies.  They are good to go.

Another smith I know, who lives in VA is making some of the mods as per the recent chronicle articles on them - hope to shoot them this summer some.

I will ask him if he would be interested in this.  his is quite good with the C&B guns - his personal pair of 1860's are the slickest actions I have fealt on any cowboy six gun and he never seems to have issues with them.

As other examples of his handy work:

When he bought his 58 Berdan rifle he could not find dies - so he made them himself.

The 1873 rifle he shoots is a mixture of original reciever and uberti barrel parts and then he made the internals himself.  It works like a dream!

PR

[Roosterman]

Shooting RB in a navy has never been a problem for me. 19gr. 3fff and the targets go down. In fact the only clean match I shot last year was with a pair of navy guns.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

At present, I have two Uberti .36's.  The cylinder mouths measure;
1. 1851 Navy;     .372-3"
2.  1862 Police;   .373-4"

This seems close.  Why would I have to ream the cylinders?  The proposed "MAKO-Shark" bullet would seat wouldn't it?

D-D;  Does MAKO's design put your project for a combo-mould, .36 C&B and .38 Long Colt, on the back burner?

[Dick Dastardly]

Howdy Sir Charles, and others.

I don't have no back burners.  I'm moving ahead way faster than my bank account.  As it now looks, I'll be working with all of you to bring Two different .36 Cal. C&B bullet designs forward.  One will copy the EPP-UG and emulate round ball performance.  The other will run around130 grains and be a true conical.  The 130 grain design will also have to work in 32-20 rifles.

She's a coming and she will be lovely when she arrives.

DD-DLoS

[Max Doolin]

I knew if I kept my mouth shut it would happen...yaw who ??