H& R trapdoor loads

[Cole Bluesteele]

I've shot 38 grains of IMR 3031with a 300 grain lead bullet in the above.  This was the starting load and was listed as the potentially most accurate load in my manual, which is quite honestly an old 46th edition Lyman reloading manual, probably from late 1988.  Now looking at the Hodgdon website, the starting load for a 45/70 trapdoor is listed as 51.7 grains! Since the old Lyman manual lists 43 grains as the maximum IMR 3013 load, I need help.  Has IMR 3031 changed over the years?  Can some one suggest a good IMR 3031 load?  for a 300 and 405 grain cast bullet.

Thanks,
Cole Bluesteele

[Will Ketchum]

  I have had good luck calling the powder companies for advice.  Here is what IMR has at their site.  "If you have a safety problem or concern - DO NOT EMAIL - CALL US DIRECTLY 7:00am to 5:30pm Central Monday-Thursday : 913-362-9455"

Will Ketchum

[Cole Bluesteele]

Thanks, Will. I'll do just that.

Cole

[Cole Bluesteele]

Just spoke with a Hodgdon tech who assured me that the 51.7 grain starting load for a 300 grain cast bullet was indeed the load they determined as the appropriate starting load for the trapdoor.

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Cole
Is yours a rifle or a carbine ? If it's a carbine that load will be rough on your shoulder . I load a 405 grain bullet with 38.0 IMR 3031 and that puts you in line with the Calvary load . Hope you bring that to the National Shoot .

[willyboy]

405 gr bullet on top of 60 gr 2F Goex.

[R.T. Rangebum]

I use the same load as Willyboy (almost). 60 grains 2f 777 and a Miester 405 grn RNFP, I like 777 as it works well with smokeless lubes. This load in an H&R Officers model Trapdoor. Good shootin' load.

R.T. Rangebum

PS: Howdy Cole, I heard you passed thrue Springfield. Sorry I missed you. Real encouraging to hear about your new NCOWS club, wishing you all the best.

[Otter]

Lyman 457125 over .030 card wad over 68 gr Goex CTG, lubed with beeswax/mineral oil (similar to SPG).

Or if you MUST use smokeless - go here for a variety of loads . . .
http://www.reloadammo.com/4570load.htm

[willyboy]

Hey R.T., that Triple Seven is pretty snappy stuff. Then I first read that it was 10-15% hotter than BP, I figured that was just Hodgdon's marketing dept. talking...but it's true.Flatter shooting,too. I'm still not switching to subs,but if I had to availability,local laws,what ever] Triple Seven is what I'd use.

[Fiddler Green]

Willyboy,

Get your butt down to San Jose next weekend for the Coyotee Valley Sharpshooters long range match. OK, it's only 200 yards, but, Springfield Slim and I will be out there throwing big lead pellets out of our 45/70s. Bring yours and Ill let you try some of my BP loads. BTW: if you happen to have a Muzzlestuffer......they will have a class for that to. Slim and I will be putting in some practise, after tomorrows match.

Bruce

[mososodbob]

Good Morning Everyone,

My apologies in advance if this is not an appropriate subject for this thread ...please point me in the right direction...

I am a newbie to this forum as well as to Indian War era guns.  I need information on reloading 45-70 ammunitions for two of my rifles.  I'm hoping members on this forum can assist with their hands-on experiences and lessons learned.

I have a Shilo Sharps and an H&R 1873 Officer's Model.  Both are in 45-70.  I'm looking for information on developing a "forage load".  This is primarily for my Trapdoor when I'm doing my "walk-about" looking for critters and other shoot-able objects. 

I'm Looking for a light load with minute-of-rabbit accuracy.  I would like to use pistol powder, specifically Bullseye, and pistol bullets.

- Will the pistol-sized bullets at .452 be "OK" in my rifle barrels?
If not, how about the .454 Long Colt bullets?
- Can I use fast burning powder like Bullseye in a big case like the 45-70?
Any issues?

I'm shooting .45 ACP 200gr loads out of a carbine and getting about 2-3 inch groups at 50 yards.  Similar performance envelope is desired.

Thanks for your help.

v/r

Bob

[J.D. Yellowhammer]

I'd suggest that the very first thing you should do is measure your barrels.  Slug them to find out what the bore is, and figure out what the rate of twist is.  Only then can you go to the next step: deciding what size bullets to use.

For example, my .45-70 Pedersoli roller has a groove diameter of .458".  So I use .459 bullets.  The twist in my barrel, if I recall correctly, is 1" in 18. So it likes a heavier bullet.  I had good success with Creedmore designs in the 500+ grain neighborhood.

My H&R .38-55 had a wide bore diameter and it really effected accuracy until I slugged the barrel and figured out the correct bullet dia. to use.  It was a lot wider than the Winchester .38-55 high wall that I purchased later.

[mososodbob]

JD,

Really appreciate the great suggestions.  Thank you.

All,

I am looking at the other end of the performance and cost spectrum.  A Plinker's load is what I'm looking for. 

I'm obsessive/compulsive enough already with my High Power Rifle and Bullseye Pistol load as it is.  I need to find the "Easy" button for this project.  Easy on the shoulder and on the wallet.  I know by instinct that this can't be a new trail.  I hate busting bush if a path was already established.  If not, I can beat bush and report to this body my findings.

Bob

[Drydock]

GET THIS BOOK!  No one with any kind of trapdoor should be without it.  It also has invaluable data for any .45-70.  In addition, there are two loadings, the light projectile "Gallery" load, and the 3 ball "Guard" load, that do well for plinking and small game.

http://www.the45-70book.com/The-Book-3rd-Edition-by-Spence-Pat-Wolf

[Buffalow Red]

3 ball "Guard" load is fun for rabits i read that it was orignalily for just that . used by hungry infentrymen in 1800's
defently the book for trap doors
http://www.the45-70book.com/The-Book-3rd-Edition-by-Spence-Pat-Wolf

[Joe Lansing]

    Mososodbob,
Stay away from Bullseye in the 45-70. The army used to have a 30-06 guard cartridge which used about 10gr. of Bullseye, but recalled them after several 1903 Springfields blew up. These were attributed to pressure spikes.

                                                             J.L.

[mososodbob]

Drydock & Red:  You Gents tried the loads provided?  Looking for some hands-on experiences.

Joe:  Good words of cautions.  I share your fear that pistol powder in big cases may not be a good thing... then there are loads out there like the "Guard" load mentioned by Red.

Net still open for more traffic on this topic.

Thanks for all provided input...learning more each time I log on to this forumn.

v/r

Bob

[Fiddler Green]

You're going to find your .45 Pistol bullets are .452-.454 while 45/70 bullets are .458-.459. So, if you want a load that rattles down the barrel, use pistol bullets but don't plan on getting a "minute of rabbit". Talk to Springfield Slim about saving money on bullets, I've been buying bullets from him for several years now and have to say their good bullets at a good price. Also, he shoots a 45/70, Trapdoor.

For me, I shoot 61 grains of Graf and sons 2FF or the same amount of Goex Cartrige under a Sagebrush 525 grain Postal and love it to death: Light (slow) recoil and deadly accurate.

Bruce

[rustyrelx]

Since your only seeking "minute of rabbit" load why not this? 50 grains of black under 2 45 pistol bullets. Should be a great plinker. Very short range though.   Don

[Pitspitr]

I've shot the US gallery load extensively through original trapdoors. The load is a deep seated .457 roundball over 7 gr of FFFg then covered with any acceptable BP lube grease. Use a decapper to remove the used caps, recap, measure the powder and seat the ball with a ML short starter. No reason to resize. Easy to reload, easy on the shoulder easy on the ears, and easy on the wallet. When fired at a steel gallery target this load will turn the roundball inside out so it has plenty of energy for clean kills on rabbits. Short range accuracy deffinately falls in the minute of rabbit category. Only caveat I can think of is to make sure you don't confuse a loaded gallery load for a unloaded brass.