Newbie 45LC reloading question.

[Wagon Box Willy]

Howdy Pards,

I bought myself the Lee Anniversary Breech Lock Challenger kit and the 3 die Lee 45 Colt die set.  I've never done any reloading before.

I did reload a few rounds with the starting load and they did slip into my R&D conversion nicely but even so I have a Lee Factory Crimp/resizing die on order.

My question is that the instructions for the Lee bullet seating die also says it crimps however I dont see any crimp.  I think I followed the instructions correctly which I believe said that after backing out the die 3 full turns and then adjusting the knob for the proper OAL, turn the die in a little bit (I turned it 1/4 turn) for the crimp.

I did that but didn't see any crimp and was afraid to turn it in more as it seems to me that would reduce the OAL.

So what am I missing?

Thanks
  Willy

[Curley Cole]

Did you get the book by Dr Richard Lee "Modern Reloading" with the press? If not I suggest you get it. It is excellent reading, gives you step by step instructions including pictures AND he explains why you did what you did. And besides it will be your first loading manual with information on powder charges and bullet weights etc...

now to answer your question, I load 45lc and 38sp (well I load a bunch of others but for this thread that is all that is important)

I only use the three dies, and don't really see the need for the factory crimp (in my loading, your mileage may vary) The final die will put on a crimp from very mild to a pretty severe crimp that will curve the brass into the bullet. The more crimp you put on the tighter the case is on the bullet, and this will result in increased pressure.

I use only enough crimp to hold the bullet firmly in place. If you push down on the bullet and it moves down into the case, you have not enough, and if your bullets move due to recoil or pressure from the magazine, that is not enough.
So you only want enough crimp to securely hold the bullet, and not bulge the brass...it is sorta a try till ya get it..

but get the book, it is a great read for new reloaders.

good shootin
curley

[GunClick Rick]

 Any chance somethin like that on dvd Curley?

[Wagon Box Willy]

Curley, thanks.  The book is in the same order with the die but like most everything right now it's backordered for a few weeks.

I guess what I don't understand is how to get the crimp.  Do I keep screwing the die further into the press and if I do that, do I back off the seating knob?

Thanks
  Willy

[Curley Cole]

Yup, Seat the die and that will adjust the crimp, like I said it is kinda trial and error til you get the crimp you want. Then depth of the bullet is obtained by screwing the adjusting screw in or out. What I did is have a bullet that is the size and length you desire, and start with the adjusting screw out pretty far...then start turning it in and comparing it with your model, and keep doing it a fraction of a turn until you reach the length you want.

You will really get a lot outta the book. In fact he takes you thru the loading of shotshells too. Also in the book are all the numbers you want for using the Lee Disk powder and the Lee perfect powder measure (I prefer the disk measure. it is pretty fool proof.)

good shootin

curley

[Curley Cole]

 http://www.leeprecision.com/html/HelpVideos/video.html


Ricky
Thanks for mentioning the dvd's . No there ain't none...But at the Lee web page, they have videos on using all the stuff. There is a video for each die and also for the factory crimp die.

It is a varitable library of information...

study up guys.....

good shootin

curley

[Wagon Box Willy]

Just to update you, I figured it out   Factory Crimp die is still on order but I may never use it.

[bluejay]

I bought myself the Lee Anniversary Breech Lock Challenger kit and the 3 die Lee 45 Colt die set.  I've never done any reloading before.

Me too!   

Did you get the book by Dr Richard Lee "Modern Reloading"

It is coming with the set.   

I have also bought bullets, primers, powder, plastic ammo boxes, walnut shell media, etc. New brass is backordered, and I have some once fired coming. It will be a Merry Christmas for us this year. 

[Curley Cole]

You won't regret it. I actually enjoy the process of reloading, but it will also save you a bunch of money. I currently am paying the following

38   $3.25/50rds
45   $4.50/50rds
12ga  $3.50/25rds.

You can save money also to buy in bulk..(last order I got  8lb kegs of powder...me and 2 other pards pool our money, then you don't pay shipping or hazmat if you know where to look.

here is a little loading calculator to show your savings

http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp

cartridge calculator

http://www.trapshooters.com/reloadcalc.htm

shotshell calc.


curley

[Junkman]

Curley wrote

...then you don't pay shipping or hazmat if you know where to look.

Please tell me where to look!

You always have to pay shipping and hazmat for powder and primers.

[cpt dan blodgett]

You won't regret it. I actually enjoy the process of reloading, but it will also save you a bunch of money. I currently am paying the following

38   $3.25/50rds
45   $4.50/50rds
12ga  $3.50/25rds.

You can save money also to buy in bulk..(last order I got  8lb kegs of powder...me and 2 other pards pool our money, then you don't pay shipping or hazmat if you know where to look.

here is a little loading calculator to show your savings


http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp

cartridge calculator

http://www.trapshooters.com/reloadcalc.htm

shotshell calc.


curley

Ya don't save anything reloading.  You do however get to shoot a lot more for the money you are willing to spend.

[Deadeye Don]

Curley wrote Please tell me where to look!

You always have to pay shipping and hazmat for powder and primers.

I would love to know that also.  Curley??

[Junkman]

Ya don't save anything reloading.  You do however get to shoot a lot more for the money you are willing to spend.

I had to read your reply SEVERAL times before I understood your meaning!

By reloading you are still spending money, just less of it than if you are buying ammo. Good thought. 

[Wagon Box Willy]

Curley wrote Please tell me where to look!

You always have to pay shipping and hazmat for powder and primers.

I think he's referring to the fact that if you buy Maine Powder or Powder Inc and buy at least 5lbs the shipping and Hazmat are included in the price.  We're still paying for it but it's hidden plus both of those places have prices that are low to competitive even with the included shipping costs.

Willy

[Delmonico]

I had to read your reply SEVERAL times before I understood your meaning!

By reloading you are still spending money, just less of it than if you are buying ammo. Good thought. 

Nope, I've used than line myself for well over $25 years.  Most folks can afford to spend only so much on ammo.  So when reloading you end up with far more ammo for the same money.

[Junkman]

Del,

Your logic is just the other side of my coin! 

[Popa Kapoff]

Nope, I've used than line myself for well over $25 years.  Most folks can afford to spend only so much on ammo.  So when reloading you end up with far more ammo for the same money.

I find that I spend the same amount or more a year, but shot a hole hell of alot more so it make me happy.  If you shop around and play around with small amounts of powered and trade out primers with other reloader you will find a good pet load.  I use federal primers, Trail Boss, Missouri bullet works 200gn, and whatever brass is on sale. I think I'm down to ¢15 a round.

[rickk]

Wagon Box Willy,

Using a separate crimp die, especially with cast bullets, results in less damage to the bullet, and less chance of a shaved ring of lead in the location of the crimp.

If you seat and crimp in one operation, you are still pushing the bullet into place while the crimp is partly to mostly formed. The sharp edge of the case mouth can grab a bit of lead and shave it off, making for a sometimes hard to chamber round. On a jacketed bullet, it is unlikely that it will shave some of the jacket off because it is much harder than lead.

With the separate crimp die, you push the bullet into it's correct location with the seating die and then apply the crimp independently with the crimp-only die.

I'm not saying you can't do it with three dies... just that there is less that can go wrong if you separate the seating and crimping operations.  It somewhat depends on how firm of a crimp you are applying and also what the crimp grove looks like.

When the crimp die comes in, try it and see of it makes any difference for you or not.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

I'm going to add a solid +1 to what Rick K said!

The factory crimp die is VERY good, and is worth using - especially if you seat the bullet, THEN crimp which is always best.   

ALWAYS.


Think of it like this.  With a crimp/seat die, While you (and your press  ) are seating the bullet those last few thousandths of an inch, here comes the crimp portion of the die squeezing the case to where it de-forms a slight part of the bullet, because it isn't quite yet seated.  In other words, you may WANT to crimp in the crimp groove provided on the bullet, but by seating and crimping on the same die, you cause the brass to dig into the side of the bullet, sometimes creating a "scraped flat" mini portion, which Should be filled out.

Now ... having said that, will that cause you problems for CAS shooting?  In ammo used for revolver shooting: probably not.  Rifle?  POSSIBLY not.  But maybe ...  And certainly in longer range shooting, for instance - beyond 50 yds.  But may be not.  I don't want to find out, (I miss enough on my own) so I ALWAYS crimp in a separate operation.  Not a problem on a 4-position turret or progressive or single-stage press, but it adds time.  You gets whut ya pay for.

I KNOW that thousands of loaders seat/crimp in one operation and do fine, in their opinion (I used to) but now that I KNOW the difference, I do things this way.  Another advantage of the LEE factory crimp die is that it gives the whole case a last "squeeze" which will take out any bulge that may be created by a crimp that is too heavy - which is VERY easy to do if your case lengths vary.  How many of us trim our PISTOL cases?  Not many.  Oh yeah, RIFLE rounds, of course, but usually, the pistol brass goes untrimmed from day one until "Trash Day."  Or until a reloader notices the VERY tight crimps he's getting and realizes that his cases are .00sumthin'-or-other LONGER than when he set the crimp on his die.

Your mileage may vary.

Happy Trails!

[Popa Kapoff]

Think of it like this.  With a crimp/seat die, While you (and your press  ) are seating the bullet those last few thousandths of an inch, here comes the crimp portion of the die squeezing the case to where it de-forms a slight part of the bullet, because it isn't quite yet seated.  In other words, you may WANT to crimp in the crimp groove provided on the bullet, but by seating and crimping on the same die, you cause the brass to dig into the side of the bullet, sometimes creating a "scraped flat" mini portion, which Should be filled out.

If you take to time to set the Seating/Crimping Die up correctly you will have no trouble. You need to set each step up by itself , it took me an hour to set all my dies up in my Hornady AP. I've had a separate crimping die and see no difference in the crimp or seating depth.