Need some advice Please!

Ace Lungger · March 10, 2009, 08:34:09 AM

Howdy Pards,

I seem to have a problem getting my leather cased. I have never had a problem casing my leather to stamp, but i have talked about learning to carve, and so I have done some chicken scrathing's! I have watched C.B. Disc #2 again, where he carves the Slim Jim.
AS He and many others, plus I have read a lot of articals about casing leather, and everyone says it will work like clay! I can never get that effect, I can get close, but have tried several different blades in my swivel knife and there is no way, i can get my knife to move like CB does in his DVD!
Hopefully my atemp today will be better?

Maybe I will state it like this, Lets say your room is 72 degree's you take your sponge, wet but not dripping wet, and you wipe both sides of your leather, making sure that you get every spot wet, and you wait until the leather starts to return to it's natural color, and you start your traceing and then you get the swivel knife out and start to work, I have touched it to my face and it feels cool, but doesn't work like clay, a good effort has to be applied for the knife to cut. Using the swivel as I have been showed in at least 5 books!
How Long from the time you have cased it untill you start working it, giving the temp as I did above?

I would be very Greatfull for advice?
Thanks
ACE

JD Alan · March 10, 2009, 09:03:13 AM

Morning Ace! Strrangly enough, casing leather has worked well for me from the get go. It's nice that at least one thing works without too much trouble. As you know, I am greatly lacking in experience, and I'm sure the guys who know what they are doing will weigh in, but here's my take, just for the heck of it.

It sounds to me like you may not be getting your leather wet enough to begin with. I bought Chuck's DVD about 6 months ago, and I was really surprised how wet he got the leather when casing it. It sure seemed to me that he got it a lot wetter than the books I'd read recommended. But then, hey, it's Chuck, so that says it all! Plus it seemed to work good for him, so I started doing that, wetting it real good, and rubbing it in real good too, just like Chuck.

I've been busy learning to cut & sew & dye (haven't learned much about that yet, still making a mess of things) so I haven't carved much, but I have stamped a fair amount. Since I've started to color the leather, I've become aware of how important it is to get good, sharp, deep cuts when stamping. Otherwise they sort of fade out when you start getting the leather wet with dye or oil.

Anyway, trying getting it really wet on both sides, rub it in vigorously, let it dry, and see how it works.

Good luck from a fellow back injury survivor! JD

Ace Lungger · March 10, 2009, 11:29:35 AM

Thanks JD,
I also have chuck's dvd set, and i also wet my leather a lot more than the books say to due! I also have done a lot of stamping, because when i started last year , I made a lot of my own stamps, and many of them were big, and i also never had any problem with stamping, and i have never had a stamp fade, like you mentioned! I have heard of that, but I have been lucky!!
I have been out playing a little this morning, and I believe that my blades are not as sharp as I thought they were! I fininaly got my peice of leather to work like clay! But it seemed to be a very short window for me

, but I do believe, it takes a whole lot of practice to get everything going the way you want!
Thanks again for the help!
ACE

cowboywc · March 10, 2009, 12:54:15 PM

Howdy Ace
Are you sure your blade is sharp and polished? A sharp blade that is not polished will drag badly. If you have grind lines in you blade it will drag. You want a mirror finish.
WC

Ace Lungger · March 10, 2009, 04:23:46 PM

WC,
I havn't ground on any of them, I just found a new blade30 min's. ago, I have not put it in a knife! I took a peice of 1x2 x4, and cut it on a 30 degree angle and measured it so I could drill a hole were the blade in tight in the hole, and I did get a little ruffer stone out, and worked a blade a little on it, and then I took a peice of non cased heavy 14oz and cut it like butter! I assume I will have to save my change and buy a factory blade holder and get them all tuned and then stropped! I am still using the first stanley blade I started with last year! But I have a couple dream boat glass stones! So if I can ever get them, with the right angle and a good edge, I hope i can make them nice blades

I will be great full for any advice.
ACE

Pokey Packrat · March 10, 2009, 06:41:40 PM

Howdy Ace Lungger, I agree with WC, you might try sharpening and polishing your swivel knife blades to a mirror finish

I've had the same problem on other projects and after re-polishing a knife blade the effort to cut was reduced

considerly, my wood carving knives are just as tempermental in wood. Polishing the surface really helps. Good luck and keep us

posted.

Marshal Will Wingam · March 10, 2009, 06:45:43 PM

Ace, yesterday I received two brand new blades from one of the more renowned tool makers. I can see some scratches in them and will still need to work them to a mirror finish. I ran my finger nail down the blade of one to see how it felt and could feel the irregularities. I don't think there is a new blade on the market that will cut right without some good sharpening. It just goes with the craft. Looks like I get to break in my new Japanese Water Stones.

Ace Lungger · March 10, 2009, 07:15:11 PM

MW,
Are you using steel or ceramic blades? And what is the advantage of the ceramic blade?
ACE

Marshal Will Wingam · March 10, 2009, 09:05:59 PM

I ordered steel blades. From what I can learn, there's still no substitute for a good steel blade. I have one beader blade that's ceramic but the rest are steel. I really can't speak from experience on a straight blade, though. Maybe someone who has used both will chime in here.

Ten Wolves Fiveshooter · March 10, 2009, 09:24:51 PM

Howdy All

Ace top of the evening to ya Pard, hope your doing well, Ace my understanding from articles I've read and what I know about ceramic, is that it's supposed to give you a smoother cut, and stay sharp longer once you have a good edge on it, the problem is, like WC said they aren't selling them to you with a finished edge, when you buy one new the edge has grinding marks on it and they have to be removed before you can get good results. I have all of them and every one of them needed to be smoothed out on both sides of the edge, they work real well once you have established a good smooth edge, and I do seem to be able to make more cuts between stropping, than a common steel blade, But my higher priced A/S steel blade was in good shape when I got it, and I've only had to strop it to keep a keen edge on it, " It's Sharp As A Lance "

tEN wOLVES

panhead pete · March 10, 2009, 09:35:06 PM

Howdy Ace & Company,

(Good to see ya posting there Pokey!)

Casing refers to the old method of placing wet leather in cases. The heat from evaporation aided absorption allowing the moisture to soften the fibers. After you wet the leather on both sides wrap it in cellophane like you get from the dry cleaners and let it sit for a few hours. The plastic adds some heat as the old cases once did. But as Marshall Will and the others mentioned, make sure the blade is really sharp. If you don't already have one, make a strop like the barbers used to use on their razors. Use a dusting of rosin or white jewelers rouge on the strop to help work the burrs and grind marks off of the blade. Hope this helps.

Kind regards,

Panhead Pete

Wiley Desperado · March 10, 2009, 09:43:19 PM

Ace, I use a ceramic filigree blade for carving most of the time because it is more slender and seems to cut and turn well. It does not need to be sharpened with a wet stone but does need to be stroped. However, I am not saying they are better than a steel blade, I use steel also, kind of depends on how tight the turns are in the pattern. There's my limited experience.
Wiley

cowboywc · March 12, 2009, 12:22:25 AM

Quote from: Marshal Will Wingam on March 10, 2009, 09:05:59 PM
I ordered steel blades. From what I can learn, there's still no substitute for a good steel blade. I have one beader blade that's ceramic but the rest are steel. I really can't speak from experience on a straight blade, though. Maybe someone who has used both will chime in here.

Howdy Ace and MW
Here is a little scroll I just did using 6 different knives with 6 different blades. 1/4 ceramic angle, 1/4 ceramic angle fine detail,
1/4 steel angle, 1/4 steel angle fine detail, 3/8 steel. 3/8 steel narrow.

Dr. Bob · March 12, 2009, 12:41:32 AM

WOW!!

That is some mighty fine work WC!! So clean and precise. Thanks!

Ten Wolves Fiveshooter · March 12, 2009, 09:03:24 AM

WC You da Man, Beautiful

TW

Ace Lungger · March 12, 2009, 12:41:20 PM

Thanks WC

,
I saved that, and I will print it off and play with it!
Thanks very Much!!
ACE

cowboywc · March 12, 2009, 03:56:08 PM

Howdy Ace
You are welcome. Anytime.
I did this to show you it does not matter what blade or knife you use. It's all practice practice practice.
Carving scrolls like this are great carving practice and excelent practice for decorative cuts on floral tooling.a

Can anyone tell what blade was used where? A different blade was used on each scroll and it's deco cuts.
Extra deco cuts were done with the last blade.
WC
P.S.
If anyone guesses right I'll give them a copy of "Southwest Inspirations in Leather" This book was done by the
Leather Artists of America. It is long out of print.

cowboy316 · March 12, 2009, 04:10:36 PM

WC
you rascal you ive got to take the challenge imm gonna have to say the top scroll is done with the 3/8 steel ,
the small scroll on the right is done with the 1/4 steel angel fine detail , the scroll on e left is doen with 1/4 ceramic angel
the scroll on the lower left is done with 1/4 steel angel and the scroll on the lower right is done with 1/4 ceramic angel
fine detail and the rest is all done with the 3/8 steel narrow
and WC ive got a guy wasnting me to do some fish carving for him do you know of where i can get patterns for fish that i can down load on here

?
thanks for the challenge
Cowboy316

cowboywc · March 12, 2009, 05:05:56 PM

Howdy Cowboy
Good try but not correct.
Here is a link to fish lineart
http://www.fws.gov/r9extaff/drawings/gamfish.html
WC

Marshal Will Wingam · March 12, 2009, 05:09:06 PM

Very nice work, WC. Thanks for sharing the picture with us. I'd say the center one was probably done with a 3/8 straight steel blade since that's what I'd start with and work around it from there. I'm not going to venture a guess beyond that. So often, you can do the same thing with different blades, depending on your mood and what's lying on the bench handy.