Jubilee Trail

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Watched part of a western this morning called Jubilee trail (1954), starring Forest Tucker as the good guy, and Joan Leslie as his counterpart........The interesting thing about this movie is towards the end there is a gunfight between Tucker and a baddy, both of them are carrying first model Richards type I's in the movie. We pretty well know where the actors are but I wonder what happened to those old pistols.

Bill

[Johnny Reb]

Yeah, I know, everyone is thinking "Well here's Johnny Reb with his input on things again"
hehe:)

There wasn't a listing of ARMORER or PROPERTY MASTER for the film but were possibly brought in by the stuntpersons, SFX or wardrobe as you know.

Here's a link...
http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0047137/fullcredits

I sure wish those COULD be located.

Perhaps the Museum of the American West has them. I'd seen many, many arms of Hollyweird there when my brother and I were asked by the then Chief Curator James Nottage to look over the original 'Judge Roy Bean Colts' back in 1991 or so when it was called The Gene Autry Western Heritage Museum(in So Calif.)
We suggested to them to put more info on the arms there like a computer to look up serial numbers, etc. for the public. For example, there was a Bisley that was pretty much trashed sitting in a display. We asked them why was that in there...was it in a film? James said that "...it was given to John Wayne by Earnest Hemmingway".

Oh well. My good ol' days.

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

I know for a long time Stembridge (spel?) was THE gun rental facility for the Hollywood film makers. I don't know when they started but I do know they sold out several years ago.

Bill

[Thai Fighter]

Bill,

You're right, it's Stembridge.

http://www.nationalfirearmsmuseum.org/gunswest/movies.htm

"...By the late 1960s, however, westerns had fallen by the wayside and films requiring large inventories of antique arms were rarely made.

Around that time, various studios began to sell off their prop departments, including the arsenals of firearms they had built up over the years. Small studios, like RKO and Republic, sold their guns to Ellis and Stembridge when they ceased film production. 20th Century Fox, Western Costume, and Universal Studios disposed of their firearms in the 1980s.

In 1999, the owners of Stembridge decided that their inventory was worth considerably more as antiques and curiosities than could be earned in future rentals. Their inventory of more than 1,000 machine guns and more than 8,000 other firearms brought almost $10 million. The owners of Ellis Mercantile followed suit in 2000.

Many of these guns are now in museums and private collections. Some that have film or big-star provenance have achieved amazingly high prices at auction. These firearms represent three times of prop arms: real guns, reproduction guns, and fake or wood/rubber/plastic guns. Each had its job to do and each was considered valuable to the production of the film or ..."

[Johnny Reb]

Yuppers... R.I.P. Great armorers they were.


I didn't mention them because of no property master or armorer in the film credits to have them be in charge of the firearms but I know they still could've gone through the production team. I should've thought of mentioning that earlier.

Well, back to work:-(

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Johnny........credits for the armorers in a film is a recent phenomenon (past 10 to 15 years)...like Thell Reed who is also a world famous gun handler form the "60's" who still does gun work and Peter Seryaken (Spell?) owner of Caravan West who supplied most of the antique and modern reproduction weapons for the film 'Tombstone' (he also played Buck Taylor's partner in the first shootout when Wyatt greets Doc Holiday in the street at the beginning of the film) .

Bill

[Thai Fighter]

I didn't mention them because of no property master or armorer in the film credits to have them be in charge of the firearms but I know they still could've gone through the production team. I should've thought of mentioning that earlier.

  Sorry, I'm not sure what you're trying to say?  I do this too when typing and listening to my wife tasking me.  Are you trying say,

"I didn't mention them because no property master or armorers are listed in film credits as being in charge of the firearms, but I know they still could've gone through the production team."?

[Johnny Reb]

Hehehe yaaa...

I was very distracted at work but wanted to write on here too...hehe

When I am an armorer or propertymaster in indie videos I handle everything from rubber molded props to the real thing and nobody touches anything til the scene is up as anyone does in that position. Safety first:-) I load the blanks, unload and check each arm in and inspect between each scene. (My brother does this too when he is available. He has a career that keeps him at work more hours than I even do.)

I've received copy of vids but sometimes I'm not always listed in the credits, even when they say I'll have copy and credit. Oh well.

Yup I used to know Pete Sherayko. Has a cool ranch too. I've been out of the 'Biz' for the past decade+ raising my ex girlfriend's family but am not away from that and getting back into things.

So true about the lack of credits for the armorers and propertymasters or special effects years ago.

Same with stuntpersons as you know.

My bro and I were trying to produce a film based on the song "El Paso" of course by Marty Robbins in 1959 and is still my favorite song since as a kid.

Anyway, we got pretty far into the process with Ronnie Robbins (Marty's son) but when Leland Rogers (Kenny Rogers' older brother who helped Marty into the music biz...or so we were told that he did), was brought in, Ronnie and was upset that he was involved and stopped working with us because they had old 'bad blood' that we didn't know about. I didn't even talk to Leland about it. We were working through his associate. I wish we were told about it first before I told Ronnie that he was on board.

I am not sure that I should put my Myspace here but here it goes:

www.myspace.com/richlovn

You can see the World War project we are working on. It began years ago as a full feature but now are working on it as a possible series MAYBE through The History Channel if it works out.

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Johnny Reb....pretty neat stuff......if you get a chance check out my web page, I have my own video production company. I'm shooting a NRA training video April 4th.

Bill

Web Page
www.perfecthatproductions.com

Photos of some of the films (and other stuff) I've worked on. You'll have to scroll through the various photos to get to them.
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,24441.0.html

[Johnny Reb]

Awesome, Ottawa Creek Bill!

Very talented my friend!

I thank you again for serving for U.S. :-)

Yup...I was at Armed Services Radio and Television! (State side).
I was a contractor to the Dept. Of Defense. I wanted to fly helicopters after high school but the Army won't take the partially colorblind.
What's strange is doing video editing and dupes for them I still had to adjust color! I did them all just fine:-) Never a write-up:-)

Annnyhoo, WOW! Your work is great!!!!!!
I wish we could get over there and work with you on some ideas. My brother John, Michael Mongillo AKA Horse Shoe 1858, Marcel Thibault AKA Curly Bill and I have been wanting to make shorts and features for a long time but seems like everything gets in the way.

Here are links to Michael and Marcel.

http://www.myspace.com/westerngentleman

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Johnny Reb......that would be nice!

The great thing about belonging to NCOWS (I also am a SASS & CMSA member) is, NCOWS is more interested in the history of the Old West and portraying it as accurately as possible.

So, that opens things up for getting authentically outfitted and accoutrement equipped actors for someone that likes to do films. No B-Western types if you know what I mean.

This June I am video taping the NCOWS national shoot. The opening to that shoot will be a ten to fifteen minute shootout in Deadwood Gulch South Dakota when it was a tent city (1874-1875).

The guys in NCOWS will have a primitive camp set up with all the equipment and furnishings of the period, Books Otoole (Mike Tatham) is in charge of setting up tent city...

We should have between 10 to 20 primitive camps and they will be period correct in every aspect. Complete with camp doctor, blacksmith, and a tent saloon. All the props furnished by members of NCOWS (The National Congress of Old West Shootists). 

Only firearms/clothing of the period will be allowed during the taping....no Rugers , no cross bolt Colt type revolvers, only Black Powder frame copies of that revolver etc., we're even going to have squibs made for bullet hits......

One scene I have written in the script is: One of the saloon patrons actually shoots through the table top twice with a Colt Dragoon and kills one of the bad guys. Should be a lot of fun.

Some of the rearms that will be used:
Spencers 56-50 cal.
Uberti Henry's
1866/1873 Winchesters/ or clones
Open tops
R/M Conversions
1851/1860 Colt Percussion Revolvers in the proper calibers (no .44 cal. 1851s, and no brass frame 1851s).
Colt Dragoons
1873 Colt or clones, Black Powder frame revolvers
Shotguns with hammers,....long barrels only, no coach guns.

Two gun rigs were a rarity...so I am keeping it to one holster, one revolver.

Bill

[Johnny Reb]

My early 4 digit serial# 1st Model SRC I usually carry to events.

I also have my early SAA 20K serial in a period holster.


That's what I like to hear!
It will be great to see that video of your script coming to life!
Shooting through the table with a Dragoon and squibs too?!!! Awesome!!!

I'd love to join NCOWS!!!!!!
My bro and I used to be members of the Old West Historical Society but haven't heard anything about it for 15 or so years.
I almost joined SASS in the early 1990's.

You sure have things going on!

I'll write more after work...

Dang I sure wish I could camp out with y'all!

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Johnny Reb......

You'd fit right in with NCOWS. There is also a lot of living historians that have accumulated a lot of knowledge that comes in handy when you are trying to recreate a certain time period.

By the way......that is some real nice equipment you have there!!

Bill

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Johnny Reb........Go here.....http://www.ncows.org/

Bill