Bedding?

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

I don't have dates or sources, but those groments did exist, I've seen them in photo's.  My guess is they came along in the pre-Civil War industral revaloution.  Probally existed much longer than that but would have had to be hand made and expensive.

Del....figured that you would know. I looked on the internet but didn't fine anything.

Bill

[Dr. Bob]

Sail makers made grommets with a coil of cord sewn down.  That is how US Army tents were made at least into the IW period.

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Sail makers made grommets with a coil of cord sewn down.  That is how US Army tents were made at least into the IW period.

Bob...that's good to know......I've made them like that but its easier to use the old lead ball or smooth rock and tie a cord round it.

Bill

[Delmonico]

Del....figured that you would know. I looked on the internet but didn't fine anything.

Bill

Some of that stuff is danged hard to find any information on with out doing a patent search.  Like that dang wingnut thing a couple years ago..

I know I've seen them in photo's on either chuck wagons or civilian tents.  I need to keep an eye out for them. 

[Delmonico]

Bill, I just did a little searching and had a little better luck.

http://www.wilcoxcrittenden.com/about/history/index.asp?bid=

I guess we can date the mass produced ones to 1847 at least.

['Monterrey' Jack Brass]

OCB –

Here's something to support brass grommets in use in quantity at least by the time of the Civil War as they were used on issue groundcloths & ponchos in quantity: Two Federal-issue ground cloths and a poncho all with small brass grommets are pictured on page 215 Echoes of Glory: Arms & Equipment of the Union, Time-Life Books (1998).

This is the only other thing in my library at this point on grommets: an illustration from the Vajen & New Hardware catalog (1884) showing brass grommets for sale from that establishment, shown on page 185.


Delmonico - In reference to the wing nut issue awhile back, the earliest reference I found then was on page 119 A Treatise on Cariages: Comprehending Coaches, Chariots, Phaetons, Curricles, Whiskies, &c (1794). Not quite patent info but good stuff to know.

YMH&OS,

Brass

[Delmonico]

Thanks Jack, don't think there is any reason to worry about grommets in canvas by the time of the Civil War.

Did some looking back, the question on "Wingnuts" aka "Modern Fastners" starts at the bottom of this page.  Don't think there is any reason to doubt them either:

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,16535.10.html

Of course by the end of 1899, things had gotten pretty modern anyway.

I wish there was a good source for when all them little items came into use, I know when I started seeing round nail heads in photos it shocked me at first, but yep, right there along with the cut nails.

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

There ya go!....Just ask the right people.

Monterrey.....are you and James going to make the national shoot this year?

Bill

['Monterrey' Jack Brass]

Delmonico - I know what you mean about finding a holy grail of nit-noid historical details. I have yet to find such a one-stop shop reference on such things as thumb nuts, nails, grommets, etc, etc. Scouring my library becomes rather labor intensive as you know mon ami. If you ever find such a book please let me know and I'll do likewise.

OCB - Mr Hunt and I should be rolling into the National Friday afternoon. I'm looking forward to seeing you and the Originals crew again (and everyone else too...!). Missing last Summer's shooting season will make my attending this year's National only that much better...! Hoping to hit a Modoc shoot this Summer and your range as well if it can all work out.

YMH&OS,

Brass

[Trinity]

Bill, I just did a little searching and had a little better luck.

http://www.wilcoxcrittenden.com/about/history/index.asp?bid=

I guess we can date the mass produced ones to 1847 at least.

Thanks Del.  Now I feel better about using it for our time frame.  I had forgotten that my gum blanket also has grommets.

We need an NCOWS group out here in NC so that I can camp with my cowboy pards! 

['Monterrey' Jack Brass]

All,

This thread prompted me to take a look at a couple primary resources in my library regarding bedding in general and do a quick, impartial, and incomplete study. Though the below info may not all directly support the initial request of this thread, the findings are interesting and apropos at some level. Please note that though a catalog may not have listed a particular item doesn't mean that it did not exist at that time, and in some cases the references leave as many questions as answers. The following is to be considered a small sampling of primary documentation and should stand on its own merits - it doesn't represent the timeframe completely as the sampling size is truly small.

Of particular interest regarding sheeting and pillow cases: one gets the impression that sheet sizes were not standard and as such sold by the yard in various widths - implied that sheeting and pillow case material was purchased in an unfinished condition in bulk and 'sheets' were made by the user, or in at least one case the mail order company, to fit the beds & pillows of the customers. I have not found any 'standard sized' sheets or pillow cases being sold as such, only in bulk or custom made. Information from the catalog references below is condensed due to repetition/redundancy. Assumption on 'sheeting' is that it was intended for a bed and not other uses - pillow case fabric references were listed next to 'sheeting' references below, however.

Catalog #13 Spring & Summer Montgomery Ward 1875
Cotton sheetings: manufacturers listed – Gem of the Spindle, Fruit of the Loom, Wamsutta
Cotton sheetings widths in inches: 36
Misc cotton sheetings general: available in bleached white, granger brown, and brown
'Pillow case' fabric: cotton in 45" to 54" wide, cotton pillow case edging 1", 1.5" & 2" wide. No mention of manufacturers
Note: both wool and cotton flannels are also listed by the yard (without mention as 'sheeting' material). No mention of widths or manufacturers
Mattress ticking type (no colors or widths listed): straw bed, feather bed, unbleached drilling. No mention of manufacturers
Mattress related: Union Spring Bed, all sizes – length of slat required ('send a fit' from mail order company based on measurements sent in with order)
Blankets: wool - colored, tinted, white. No mention of manufacturers 


'Clothing and Furnishings' catalog, Lord & Taylor 1881
Cotton sheetings: manufacturers listed - Utica, Wamsutta, Androscogggin
Cotton sheetings widths in yards: 1.25, 1.5, 2, 2.25, 2.5, 2.75
Misc cotton sheetings general: bleached and unbleached, also any sheet size made to order
Pillow case fabric: manufacturers listed - Utica, Wamsutta, Fruit of the Loom
Pillow case fabric: widths in inches: 40, 45, 50, 54. Various lengths in stock. Any pillow case size made to order
Note: canton flannels also listed in inches 27, 30, 33, 36 in white, drab, brown, blue and slate (without mention as 'sheeting' material). No mention of manufacturers
Mattress ticking: (no colors listed) in inches 27, 32, 36 60. No mention of manufacturers
Mattresses: hair, husk, straw, fibre, rattan - made to order only in writing for price state size, material wanted, and whether in one or two parts
Blankets: cotton, cotton-and-wool warp, wool filling, 'California', 'Exposition' – colors white, blue, red, gray, striped. Also have 'comfortables' in various sized 2.25 X 1.25 yards and 2.25 X 2 yards, made with Eider down and Arctic down and various chintz cover fabrics.


YMH&OS,

Brass

[Dr. Bob]

Brass,

Great stuff as expected!      Thanks!  Looks like linen was not usual by 1875.

['Monterrey' Jack Brass]

Dr B – Unfortunately I didn't have time to include this reference in the initial post. Of interest here is Bloomingdale's which lists as 'sheeting' only linen, no cotton under that name. Again, what is shown here is a small percentage of what was out there back in the day and is getting a bit late in the era.

Spring & Summer 1886, Bloomingdale Brothers Price List
Linen sheetings: manufacturers listed – Wamsutta, Utica, Fruit(of the Loom?), Lonsdale
Linen sheetings widths in yards: 2, 2.25, 2.5
Misc sheetings general: colors - bleached and brown
Pillow case linen: widths in inches – 42, 45, 54 (no manufacturers listed)
Flannel: numerous listed including wool, cotton & wool, silk & wool, canton, domet in various colors (without mention as 'sheeting' material).
Mattress ticking: fancy striped, ordinary striped (no widths listed)
Mattresses: none listed
Blankets: no mention of material they're made from but they come in brown, gray, scarlet, white. Also sell 'comfortables'

Brass

[Dr. Bob]

MJB,

Thanks again!

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Hi,

I also was looking around and found this ....

http://www.greydragon.org/furniture/beds/ropebed.html

TTFN

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Hi,

I also was looking around and found this ....

http://www.greydragon.org/furniture/beds/ropebed.html

TTFN

Thanks WWE;  I have been wondering how to make a bed that can be knocked down.  The closest I got was siderails that fit onto pack boxes and wooden slats to hold up my sleeping robes (air mattress & schlaf-sack).

[River City John]

The good old wooden folding Army cot is period correct.
These are still to be found in surplus stores and at secondhand sales venues. May have to replace the canvas. They are lighter and faster to set up than a rope bed.

http://www.kancoll.org/books/marcy/mar5_14b.htm

The cot shown from the Marcy book above is an earlier style that was a precursor. Remember, these items were 1858 or earlier, as The Prairie Traveler was printed in 1859.



RCJ

[Dutch Limbach]

I made a rope bed during my rendezvousin' days. When you lay on the bed for extended periods of time the ropes stretch out some. To tighten the ropes up take some wooden wedges and place them between the rope and outside of the board. As needed you can tap the wedges down a bit to tighten up the ropes.

IMHO the cot RCJ mentioned is superior in comfort and convenience.

[Delmonico]

I made a rope bed during my rendezvousin' days. When you lay on the bed for extended periods of time the ropes stretch out some. To tighten the ropes up take some wooden wedges and place them between the rope and outside of the board. As needed you can tap the wedges down a bit to tighten up the ropes.

IMHO the cot RCJ mentioned is superior in comfort and convenience.

That's supposed to be the origins of the saying, "sleep tight."

[Delmonico]

The good old wooden folding Army cot is period correct.
These are still to be found in surplus stores and at secondhand sales venues. May have to replace the canvas. They are lighter and faster to set up than a rope bed.

Do inspect all cots before setting them up and attempting to sleep on them, nocturnal accidents can wake up the whole camp.



(I just know my camera will not be allowed at the Department of the Missouri Muster this year. )