Feeding problem Colt Lightning Rifle

[Ronny the Gambler]

Howdy,

I have several original Colt Lightning Rifles and one of them have a feeding problem. The round is already halfway in the receiver before the carrier comes up. Does anybody knows what I can do about this? And I want to do an action and smoothing job but I don't know what to do  can I get some advise in this?

Thanks already!
Ronny the Gambler from the Netherlands

[WhiteDingo]

Just throwing this out there, as I'm not particularly familiar with the lightning rifles, but have you checked to make sure there isn't excessive wear on the carrier where (I'm assuming this is how it works) the action bar actuates it? That could cause the carrier to not move precisiely when it needs to

[Pettifogger]

If you have several Lightnings and only one has feeding problems you are a lucky man.  Diagnosing and fixing problems with Lightnings requires a good bit of knowledge.  What exactly do you mean by the cartridge is "already halfway in the receiver before the carrier comes up?"  The round should be ALL the way into the receiver before the carrier comes up or the round will jam in the magazine tube.

P.S.  There is no action bar in a Lightning like there is in, for example, a Model 97 Winchester shotgun and the carrier is not operated by the pump slide.

[Fingers McGee]

Huh?  This is a lightning were talking about right?  The carrier has to bring the cartridge up to the chamber mouth before it can be chambered.  How can the cartridge be chambered, even part way, before the carrier lifts it?

Or do I have my terminologies mixed up?

FM

[Deadeye Dick]

Fingers,
They are referring to the receiver not chamber. Sounds like the round is halfway in the magazine tube and halfway in the receiver when the carrier starts to lift, thereby causing a jam. The round needs to be all of the way into the receiver before the carrier comes up. At least that's my take on it.

[Ronny the Gambler]

Thanks for all of yours reply.
I shall try to explane (in my best English) what's happening.
If I move the slide backwars than the empty cartdridge is trowing out and a new fresh round is coming and now the problem starts.The new round is halfway in the reveiver and halway in the magazine tube when I move the slide forward and the carrier is starting to lift so then the round jams (just as a few of you already described).When this happens the fisrt few times (this problem just came this rifle worked always perfect) I took the rifle apart and cleaned everything after assembling the problem still stays.It is not happening all the time but it happens on a frequently base.I was thinking that it maybe got someting to do with the magazine stop or spring but I am not sure.Hope I explaned it well enough for you guys.
Thanks
R the G

[Fingers McGee]

Fingers,
They are referring to the receiver not chamber. Sounds like the round is halfway in the magazine tube and halfway in the receiver when the carrier starts to lift, thereby causing a jam. The round needs to be all of the way into the receiver before the carrier comes up. At least that's my take on it.

You're abvsolutely right.  Don't know why I was thinking chamber.  Only had one cuppa coffee in me, must not have been all the way awake.



FM

[Deadeye Dick]

You're abvsolutely right.  Don't know why I was thinking chamber.  Only had one cuppa coffee in me, must not have been all the way awake.



FM

Ya, I got the same problem. Gotta get a couple couple cups of java down before the ol noodle starts working properly.

DD

[Pettifogger]

Ronny, your English is great.  I'm sure none of us speak Dutch.  I will try to explain one operational cycle of the Lightning and then suggest what to look for.  Let us start with an empty rifle.  The bolt is back so you can load the rounds.  At this point the carrier is all the way up and the rounds load under the carrier into the magazine tube.  As the rounds are loaded the rims must be in front of the cartridge stop, especially on the last round.  As the pump handle is moved forward the carrier drops down on top of the pump slide.  The tip of the cartridge stop sticks up through a slot in the pump slide and carrier.  Just behind the finger on the end of the cartridge top is a small ramp with a notch in it.  Just as everything is going into battery and the bolt is closing, the back of the pump slide hits the little ramp behind the cartridge stop finger.  The ramp pushes the finger down and travels a SHORT distance and partially pops back up to lock the pump slide.  As the little ramp pushes the stop finger down, the RIM of the next round should slip completely over the stop finger.  It is then resting on the extension that sticks out from the bottom of the bolt.  Now when you pull the trigger a cam on the hammer pushes the cartridge stop down to release the pump slide, the slide starts to the rear and the cartridge, which is resting on the front of the bolt on the lower extension, follows the bolt rearward and onto the carrier.  When the bolt gets to the rear cams tip the carrier up and when the bolt starts forward it pushes the round into the chamber.  The carrier drops and the whole process starts over.  Two things to look at initially.  First, just make sure you have a good magazine spring.  If they go bad they don't push the rounds back fast enough.  Second, you have to make sure that the pump slide is pushing the little ramp behind the stop finger down far enough to fully release the cartridge so the rim is sitting on the bolt extension.  If the ramp or pump slide is worn and the top of the stop finger is dragging on the cartridge rim as it is trying to follow th bolt, you can have the kind of problem you are describing.  Hopefully, this helps a little.  I have nine Lightnings and they are a joy when they work and a real pain in the neck when they don't.

[Ronny the Gambler]

Thanks Pettifogger now I can try to look further.
The magazine spring is a new one nearby here is an spring manufacturer who is make them for me in the original lenght and strength. So I going to look at the magazine stop finger.
I having at the moment 10 lightnings all of them are almost in factory new condition. The one with the problems at the moment is a San Fransisco Police Lightning which we always use for CAS, so it is possible that it's a little bit worn. I love to shoot with Lightnings it is so much fun I have also a few Winchester model 1873's but I always pick the Lightnings when I go to a match.
Manny thanks for your detailed explanation I shall keep you informed how this is going.
Kind regards,
Ron

[Ronny the Gambler]

Problem is solved!
The ramp behind the finger was a little bit worn I hammerd it (on a anvil) to the correct lenght and the feeding
problems are over now.
Thanks to Pettifogger for helping me solving this problem!
Kind regards,
R the G.

[Pettifogger]

Good.  I've been slowly rebuilding my Lightnings.  Some are easy, some take many, many, hours to get to run right.

[Ronny the Gambler]

That's right Pettifogger.
I read your article in the Chronicle about Tuning Pietta's I did this job by 2 original Colt Army's It took me hours and hours but now they are working so nice they are going like machine guns.Perfect!

[mandrakke]

Ronny the Gambler: My lightning in 44-40 (Baby Carbine) has the same problem. Could you please show me (in a drawing) the exact point of the magazine stop that you hammered (ramp behind the finger)? Thank you very much. Umberto (Rome, Italy)

[Pettifogger]

mandrakke, do you realize this thread is over five years old?

[mandrakke]

Pettifogger,
I thought it was still possible to "resuscitate" the discussion, if The Gambler (or anyone else) is willing to give me an answer.  If I did something wrong, please accept my apologies

[Pettifogger]

Pettifogger,
I thought it was still possible to "resuscitate" the discussion, if The Gambler (or anyone else) is willing to give me an answer.  If I did something wrong, please accept my apologies

No, no, no, you are fine.  I just wanted to point out it has been a long time and I haven't seen any posts from him for quite a while.  There are MANY things that can cause feeding problems in a Lightning.  If you describe your problem in more detail perhaps I can post a photo.  I have 14 Lightnings.

[mandrakke]

Thanks Pettifogger,
however the rifle is an original Colt Lightning Baby Carbine in .44-40 (barrel length: 20 inch - serial number: 84160 - it has no safety lock: I mean that it can be pumped back and forth irrespective of the hammer position). The problem: when I pull the pump backward and a new round comes out of the magazine, it goes onto the cartridge carrier in a wrong way, i.e. not horizontal but oblique, with its rim up, which makes  the rifle jam. Sometimes (rarely) the problem does not occur and the rounds come out of the mag in the proper way (perhaps when I shut he pump forward violently?): in this case I can discharge the whole magazine by pumping back and forth without never pulling the trigger. The reason why I believe that my problem is similar to Ronny's (either the ramp or the pump slide, or both, must be worn out) is because all the ejected rounds are deeply engraved by the cartridge stop both on their rims and along the cases: I believe this means (as you said in the post) that the top of the stop finger is dragging onto the cartridge rim (and the rest) as it is trying to follow the bolt in its run backward. Since it is not possible to intervene on a worn slide, there might be a hope in hammering the ramp behind the finger, to make it more protruding, so that the slide can push down the ramp sufficiently in order for the finger not to touch the cartridge rim when it comes out of the mag (and not to deviate it).
If this is the problem, I should know how and how much to hammer the ramp (as Ronny did).
I hope that, in spite of my poor english, I was able to describe the problem to you, whom I consider the Lightning Wizard!
Thanks

[mandrakke]

I'm attaching some photos of my jewel

[mandrakke]

Sorry, it's impossible to enclose photos: their format is too heavy for the forum