How much fffg in .45LC?

[Sawed-Off]

Pards

I'm just starting my journey to the Holy Black. I'm going to try the "250gn bullet over a full case of BP" type load that I've read about so much. The only trouble I'm having is, how much is a full case of BP? The Lee dippers and Pro1000 powder measures all use a CC scale. I'm sure it's obvious, but darned if I can figure out where to start. I've done some searching here, but if it's been mentioned, I must be missing it.

[Deadguy]

Some people define a full case as a FULL CASE, filled all the way to the top, while others define a full case as filled just barely to the bottom of the bullet.  With BP, any amount from just up to the bottom of the case to filling the case up entirely will work (obviously there will be some compression!).  So, just find a dipper that fills the case up anywhere from where the bottom of the bullet would be in a loaded cartridge up to the very top of the case, and you'll be set.  I think starting out from the 2.0 cc dipper will get you close, it shouldn't be long until you find one that works.  maybe a minute's worth of trial and error.

[Fox Creek Kid]

FFg shoots better and recoils less than FFFg IMO in .44 & .45 pistol cartridges. That's what the cartridges were loaded with back then as well. Just a heads up. 

[Angel_Eyes]

The Cartridges of the World hand book gives the original factory load as:-

40 grains of FFg with a 255gr bullet giving 810 fps.

AE

[Sawed-Off]

Thanks Pards. That'll get me up and running. 

FFG is kinda hard for me to get. I live in a regional city on the north eastern coast of Australia. None of the trucking companies wants to shift BP around much anymore, let alone to about 1800 miles north of Sydney where most of it comes in. Even the Pedersoli importer drives to Sydney and picks it up himself. FFFG is what the gunshop had on the shelf, and that's all I'm likely to have access to for the foreseeable future. Anyway, I'm not a usually flincher, so hopefully the extra recoil shouldn't phase me any. I have nearly 2 pounds of it, so I'll just have to get used to it 40 grains at a time. 

[Angel_Eyes]

Good on yer, mate! Just fill it and squish it! Have fun!!

From a UK shooter, Angel Eyes.

[Ranch 13]

37 grs of goex 3f a .030 fiber wad and a 250 gr bullet is about all I can squeeze into winchester 45 colt cases.
Velocity runs around 875 fps from a Ruger New Vaquero 5.5 inch barrel. (just like was originally intended) and fouling isn't to bad at all. No problems with things binding up until somewhere around 30 rounds, and that was just loading and shooting without any wasting any time.

[River City John]

Howdy Sawed-Off,

Start off with the bare-bones basics. The old saying BP likes to be kissed. Some compression removes air space (a definite hazard) and improves initial ignition. I prefer a case filled so that the bullet, when seated, compresses the powder about 1/8". This will save powder compared to filling the case to the brim and hard compressing. Use a hot primer, if you can get them from your source. But any primer will ignite and I personally don't think it makes a lot of difference at our typical CAS ranges.
Those who shoot the long range BP matches may feel differently about primers, though.

When I started to load for the .45lc I took a short length of dowel, 3/8" dia. or so. Laid the square-cut end along side my bullet so that it lined up with the bottom of the crimp groove and penciled a line even with the flat base.
Fill a case with powder and adjust so that the dowel inserted rests on top of my powder load and case rim comes just below the mark. Then adjust the seating of my bullet so the case rim was even with the top of the crimp groove. Most designs of .45lc I have used have at least an 1/8th" between the bottom and the top of the crimp groove.
Dumped out this powder on my scale and weighed just to get a figure for reference. I then tried various combinations of CC powder measures needed to come up with the same volume. (I use ffg, and 250gr bullet.) I have also adjusted my drop powder measure to drop the same size charge for those times when I was loading quantity. Most times I load just for the match and use the hand measures dipping loose powder out of a bowl. Just be consistent and safe.
Use enough crimp.

 
You said because of supply situation you're going to want to husband your stock of BP. Fibre wads may well be subject to the same supply problems. They weren't used in historical loadings so are a modern solution in CAS to reduce powder, thus recoil. You've already stated stout loads are not an issue. Eliminating them will reduce an additional step in the reloading process. Lots of Pards do use them. Not having them on hand when it's time for some reloading shouldn't keep you from being able to reload when you want. (But they will extend that supply of precious powder by using less powder in the case,- perhaps a plus in future planning.)
 
You'll find that lube is more of a factor than how much powder can be coaxed into a case. There are plenty of threads in here on lube.

My $.02
RCJ

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Weighing Black Powder is not always the best way to figure out how much to stuff in a cartridge, for the simple reason that different brands of powder weigh different amounts. So 37 grains of one brand may take up a different amount of space in the case than 37 grains of another brand. This will inturn lead to inconsistant amounts of compression for different powders.

Here is a little something I wrote up a year or so ago that may help clarify the concept:

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,18257.0.html

As my little write up states, the actual amount of Black Powder needed in the case will vary with bullet design, specifically the location of the crimp groove relative to the bottom of the bullet.

However, if you want to talk in terms of CC, my standard powder charge for most 45 Colt 250 grains bullets is a level 2.2 CC dipper full of FFg. If I was loading FFFg I would still use the same level 2.2CC dipper. This gives me around 1/16" of compression with most 250 grain bullets. You will get a bit more oomph, but the voume of powder will be the same, and provide the same amount of compression. The same amount of compression is what is most important with real Black Powder.

[Wills Point Pete]

 What Driftwood said, with the following caveat. Two ponds of BP isn't much and it sounds as if it's difficult to come by in your neck of the woods. Do they have dry grits in Oz? Depending on what you are doing with those loads you can cut way back on the powder, fill the space with dry grits and still make plenty of noise and smoke.

After all, the US Cavalry wiped out a who passel  of Indians using 28 grains of powder and a 230 lead bullet, I think they filled the empty space with a cork wad. We can use grits or a fiber wad, I've heard other folks using Cream of Wheat.

The original ballistics of that load was something close to the modern .45 ACP round, John Browning was shooting for that when he developed the .45 ACP. That load also slapped down a bunch of drug addled, Kris waving Moros in the southern Philippines. Since I only use BP Colts to swat steel targets, the lighter load works just fine.