Conway buckle

[Irish Dave]

Pards:
Anybody know the when the conway buckle was first used? Or at least how far back they go?

Much obliged.

[Major 2]

Dave

I've been into  around and owned horses all my life.
The Conway ( which is a standing solid center post style with two keepers at each side) became popular with Nylon halters.
I've seen them used on entry level leather tack.... Halter & Bridles
Often found in Brass or nickle plate , cheaper ones are made from zink coated or chrome cast steel.
Though I have no hard facts to support my conclusion, I say around the late 1930's....

[Irish Dave]

Thanks, Major.
Any other opinions on this?

[Delmonico]

Thanks, Major.
Any other opinions on this?

I can't offer any more at this time, but have made a mental note to keep an eye out as I look through historical pictures and see if one comes up any earlier.

[Delmonico]

Dave, in case you miss it, this came up in the post on The Old Fashioned Way:

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,24865.msg324612/topicseen.html#msg324612

[Professor Marvel]

Dave, in case you miss it, this came up in the post on The Old Fashioned Way:

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,24865.msg324612/topicseen.html#msg324612

Why, Thank you  Delmonico. I did not find his question over here. You are clearly a gentleman as well as a Prairie Chef :-)

yhs
Prof Marvel

[Don Nix]

I have found conway buckles on harness that I have restored that predate the 1930s by a long shot. I will hazard a guess as pre1900. I used to do quite a bit of saddle and harness restorations for museums and private collectors from all over the states and I have run across a lot of conway buckles used way before the advent of man made synthetic tack.

[Irish Dave]

Much obliged to the Professor for the info, to Del for the tipoff and to Lone Gunman for his e-mailed info this morning.
I had tried to search the Patent Office archives but was not successful. This helps greatly.

I have been pondering a (alternative to the chest strap) harness arrangement for period shoulder holsters, but didn't want to consider using a conway unless it was correct for the era.

What a vast resource we provide one another here! Again, my thanks.

[River City John]

Dave,
I will have this set at my table at the NCOWS Convention. These are too heavy for a shoulder holster rig, but Marshal, I figured as long as you gathered the crowd together I might as well do a little selling.
Would be suitable for harness, I would imagine?

See everyone at the NCOWS Convention in Kansas City March 20-22.

RCJ

[Irish Dave]

Much obliged for the pic, RCJ. Any idea when these examples date to?

As to the "crowd"...well, always happy to help.

[River City John]

Much obliged for the pic, RCJ. Any idea when these examples date to?

As to the "crowd"...well, always happy to help.

I have no idea on the age.
Here is an eBay listing for similar, but no mention of age.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Old-Brass-Boyt-Horse-Harness-Buckles-etc_W0QQitemZ250375049661QQcmdZViewItem


I'll continue to search. These show honest wear, though.

[St. George]

Upon looking through my references,  - neither the 'Sears, Roebuck & Co.' catalog for 1897, nor the 'Montgomery Ward & Co.' catalog for 1895 show a 'Conway' buckle - and these two supply houses sold  pretty much everything to everyone.

These are the full-sized catalogs - not the pocket-sized reprints - and they feature their entire line.

None of the Model 1904 McClellan Saddles, nor the various Cavalry rifle scabbards feature them, either.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Major 2]

Prof....your have lived up to your name ..Your are a Marval 
Thanks, Del for the link 

I was suprised to see a 1882's Patent date....

I'm still inclined to say, common use was much later, I'm with St. George.

[Irish Dave]

Not sure how I missed it the first time, but .....
Upon further reading of the patent application, it seems that the most pertinent info and perhaps the best evidence so far can be found in the text (starting on Line 68) of Frederick Conway's 1882 patent application, so gratefully located by Prof. Marvel:

I am aware that buckles similar to mine have been made, having loops on either end and a vertical tongue or pin in the center of the plate; but none hitherto have made the loop at one end higher than at the other, in consequence of which the strap will with difficulty go under the loop where it is double, and will be exceedingly loose at the other end....

On its face, this statement seems to be primary evidence that this style of buckle was not only manufactured, but sufficiently common to be known to Mr. Conway, prior to his 1882 application and therefore correct to be used in our period, even though in a slightly different application.

[ChuckBurrows]

Howdy Dave -  a bit more info - I checked my reprint of an 1875 harness making manual and there are several pages of buckles illustrated and no Conway's or anything similar although there are several "patent" buckles.
Not the final word by any means but it is a very complete manual so it should give an early date  to work forward from........

[Irish Dave]

Thanks, Chuck. Much obliged for the additional info.

[Curly Red Ryder]

Not seen any in 1892 Mosemans' catalog
BUT there is one pictured on page 402 in Dorsey's "the american military saddle" for 1909 headstall used with 1909 curb bit and bridoon bit.