Original Remington o/u and reloadable cases

Dutchman Dick · February 15, 2009, 08:59:03 PM

I just bought an original Remington double derringer (2nd type, made 1888-1912) from Dixie Gunworks. Price was right, as the gun has a repaired hinge, but I was looking for a shooter rather than a collector any way. As the Navy Arms .41 RF ammo is getting scarcer and more expensive, I bought a dozen reloadable .41 RF cases and a box of .22 blanks, and a .400 round ball mould, at the same times.

Anybody out there have any experience with the reloadable .41RF cases? How well do they work? Any tips or hints? And does anyone make a mould for the correct heel-based conical ball that would work in my gun? Or do round balls produce acceptable results? Thanks!

Dutchman Dick · February 18, 2009, 02:36:53 PM

Anybody? Nobody?

C'mon! I can't believe, with the scarcity (and expense) of .41 short RF ammo, and the large number of "cowboy era" guns that chambered it, that nobody's tried the reloadable cases...

St. George · February 18, 2009, 03:14:43 PM

Maybe because Navy Arms made up some, and it's still found at gun shows and gun shops, so it's still being used.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

Dutchman Dick · February 18, 2009, 04:20:51 PM

Quote from: St. George on February 18, 2009, 03:14:43 PM
Maybe because Navy Arms made up some, and it's still found at gun shows and gun shops, so it's still being used.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

Have you seen the price of the Navy Arms stuff? It's been discontinued for a few years now, along with the .32 short and .32 long rim fire they used to sell, and the price has gone WAY up! Cheaper in the long run to buy a dozen re-loadable cases and .22 blanks...

ndnchf · February 18, 2009, 04:52:41 PM

Many years ago I used Dixie's reloadable .50 Spencer rimfire cases. They worked well enough as long as you lined up the .22 with the firing pin. They were lathe turned and a little thick so there was a little blowback. But they were fun to shoot.

Dutchman Dick · February 18, 2009, 06:51:11 PM

Quote from: ndnchf on February 18, 2009, 04:52:41 PM
Many years ago I used Dixie's reloadable .50 Spencer rimfire cases. They worked well enough as long as you lined up the .22 with the firing pin. They were lathe turned and a little thick so there was a little blowback. But they were fun to shoot.

Did you use a round ball or a conical? If you used a round ball, how well did it work? At least with the Remmie, it shouldn't be too hard to align the firing pin. The .22's just both have to be in the middle, so that the top one is at 6:00 and the bottom one is at 12:00 (with the barrels closed).

Dalton Masterson · February 18, 2009, 07:41:47 PM

Sounds like a reasonable solution to the problem.
I have my eyes on one that needs quite a bit of work, and have wondered about lining the barrels for 38 S&W and reworking the firing pins. Would this be possible? I am not sure how the pins are situated in there.
DM

Montana Slim · February 18, 2009, 08:40:48 PM

I've used Dixie's .41 rimfire cases in a period-converted Plant Army revolver, also used the .44 Rf cases with a Wesson CW cavalry carbine. The cases work well, If I recall correctly a .40 cal RB was used in the .41 cases. I suggest you remove the propellant from the blanks before using them. I always used a dismantled .22 short (or .22 LR in the .44s), dumping the powder and saving the bullet for thelead pot. All the .22 does is act as a primer. Prime using the .22 case, nearly fill with BP, tap the RB into place and fire. It takes some experimenting to find the exact bullet that will chamber well and press into the case.

The Wesson carbine shoots ragged one-hole groups at 50 yds.

Regards,
Slim

Dutchman Dick · February 19, 2009, 05:12:51 PM

Quote from: dalton masterson on February 18, 2009, 07:41:47 PM
Sounds like a reasonable solution to the problem.
I have my eyes on one that needs quite a bit of work, and have wondered about lining the barrels for 38 S&W and reworking the firing pins. Would this be possible? I am not sure how the pins are situated in there.
DM

It's a single, blade-shaped firing pin that moves up and down in a slot in the breech face, slightly off to the right of the gun. It hits the bottom of the upper cartridge rim, and the top of the lower cartridge rim. It would take a MAJOR rework to get it to fire center-fire cartridges, if it could even be done. Plus, I suspect the .38 S&W would be to strong for the weak hinges on a Remington. They have enough of a tendency to crack as it is. Better to use the reloadable cases.

I e-mailed Navy Arms last night about whether they would be bringing back the rimfire ammo they used to carry from CBC in Brazil. They replied that CBC was currently fulfilling a government contract but that when it was finished in 3-5 years the rimfire ammo would be back in production.

Steel Horse Bailey · February 19, 2009, 05:46:33 PM

3-5 years, eh.

I guess we can start holding our breath.

Trailrider · February 19, 2009, 06:22:59 PM

Howdy, Pards,
I would recommend against attempting to shoot this gun! Even if the hinge appears to be repaired, and even if done well, you are still dealing with a gun that has a frame that is basically wrought iron, rather than steel! A well-done repair can make the gun look good, but that doesn't necessarily mean the gun is capable of taking more than a shot or two, if that many!

When E.J. Williams and I published our article on the Remington O/U Double Deringer in the Mar-Apr 1995 edition of Man At Arms magazine, we tested the Navy Arms Brazilian-made .41 Short Rim Fire ammo, and found that compared to 1950's vintage Remington ammo, the Navy stuff was quite a bit higher in velocity! (The tests were carried out using a single shot rolling block Remington Pocket Pistol.) While most hinge cracks on the O/U's come from flipping the barrels back against the frame, rather than from overpressures. Nevertheless, the guns were NOT intended to be fired more than a few times! You will find more of these guns with almost perfect bores, and no finish, especially if they were carred in a pants pocket!

(If you are interested in the history and details of the variations of these little guns, you might want to get ahold of a copy of the new book, "Dr. William H. Elliot's Remington Double Deringer", published by Graphic Publishers. Call 1-800-496-8726. While I am a co-author, I do NOT receive anything from the sale of the book, as this was a self-published book by two of the four of us, and I elected not to contribute money to the printing costs, and so do NOT "participate" in the proceeds!

)

The design of the frame and firing pin would make converting to central fire difficult at best, and not worth the cost. BTW, there is IMHO no SAFE way to carry this gun with both barrels loaded! The only safety is the half-cock notch, and if the gun is dropped on the hammer spur, it will likely break the sear, and the gun WILL FIRE! It cost an Arizona deputy sherrif a wound in his leg that required amputation!

I have not tried the .22 rf blank cartridges from DGW, but would think you can get them to fire IF alligned correctly with the firing pin. Having said that, I would limit loadings to black powder, IF AT ALL!

Ride CAREFUL, Pard!

Dutchman Dick · February 19, 2009, 08:50:57 PM

UPS delivered my derringer today. What a piece of crap! It isn't worth even a fraction of the $575 asking price!

The description made it out to be fully functional and in decent shape except for the repaired hinge and a cracked grip panel. However, NO mention was made about the broken firing pin or its missing spring, or the fact that the hammer is broken through at the back where the metal is thinnest - the point where the firing pin pivot goes through. Not only that, but the hinge "repair" turned out to be a couple of washers brazed to the outside of the frame, with the pivot screw apparently brazed in place, and when I opened the barrels normally - not flipping them open, like I've seen some idiots do - the hinge cracked right off! I must say, I expected much better from Dixie Gunworks, considering how long they've been in the business of selling both antique and replica guns. I plan to get my money back. This really sucks, as I've been wanting a "shooter grade" Remmie double for a LONG time!