Marlin 336 Cowboy in 38-55 - Idiosyncrasies?

[Blackpowder Burn]

I don't know if this is the proper forum for this question, but it seems the closest I could find - so here goes.

I have an opportunity to pick up a NIB Marlin 336 Cowboy in 38-55.  This would fill a hole in my battery, as I don't have a big bore lever rifle, and the price is MUCH less than a new Win 1876 clone.  However, I've heard both good and bad about the Marlins in this caliber.  Some rave about the accuracy, and some report oversize bores (as much as 0.380").  The oversize bores reportedly make it difficult to achieve accuracy with cartridges that will fit the chamber (can't chamber a round with a bullet large enough to fit the bore properly).

Any comments, suggestions, techniques, etc. from anyone that has one of these rifles would be greatly appreciated.

[Marshal Deadwood]

I am a fan of the Marlin rilfes. Have had a few 336's..and now I have a 1895cowboy in 45-70 govt that is just a kick a*s rilfe ! Ain't even nice what it will do to whitetails...whew !

The 336 in 38-55,,I can't help you with that.  I've oft pondered that calibre,,,and could I round up the money,,would love to have it in a Hi Wall.

I did see a new in box '94Win recently in 38-55,,that tickled my fancy,but the dealer wanted 750 for it, and I couldn't make peace with myself to buy it.

Still,,,it wasss a nice '94.

IF you buy this rifle,,or find out more concrete information,,please let us know. I , for one, am interested,,as one never knows what might lay down the trail in gun purchases.

Good luck, hoss,

MD

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Howdy
The Marlin 336 in 38-55 . The rifle I got from Marlin had a .380 bore and the chamber was small and had to be opened up to accommodate the large bullet .381 which are hard to find . But if you want to use jacketed bullets for Hunting Barnes has a .377 which will shoot like a top or at least it did in mine . I love shooting the 38-55 after getting the bugs worked out .

[Will Ketchum]

The problem is that it's NIB   You probably can't slug the bore on a new rifle and with this caliber bore size can vary.  With this said I don't recall hearing that this was a problem with Marlins.

I would suggest that you go to the Graybeard web site at http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php and then  go to the marlin Board therez at http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php?board=130.0  You can search for 38-55 or just ask your question.

Hope this helps.

Will Ketchum

[French Jack]

It was quite common for the Marlins in that chambering to have a bore somewhat oversize (compared to present .375 bullet usage).  The problem is that the factory ammo is loaded with a .375 diameter bullet.  It won't chamber a larger bullet due to the tight chamber neck.  The cure is to have a competent gunsmith ream out the chamber throat with a throating reamer of the correct size to accept a larger diameter bullet.  Then the problem no longer exists ( unless you continue to use .375 diameter bullets ).  .379 diameter cast bullets are available, and Barnes makes a .377 jacketed bullet that works well.  You are locked into reloading, though.

You can even do it yourself, by hand, with a throating reamer from Clymer and their T-handle extension.  A bit of good cutting oil, and 15 minutes is all it takes.

[Blackpowder Burn]

To All,

Thanks for the good information and suggestions to deal with possible issues.  I do reload and cast my BPCR bullets, and all ammunition for this rifle will be loaded with 20:1 cast bullets and primarily black powder. 

French Jack - thanks for the suggestion on the Clymer chamber reamer.  I think I'll make a chamber casting, and if necessary, I'll go that route.  It does seem most reasonable to ream out the chamber to properly accomodate ammunition loaded with the correct bullet diameter than to go to exotic extremes in other directions.

Overall, the research I've done shows people really like the Marlin rifles, even with this issue.  Guess I'll make the trade and see what happens.

[French Jack]

Aggie, the problem was very common with Winchesters as well, not only in this chambering but several others as well.  Just mike the neck on your chamber casting, and check with Clymer or other reamer company to get one that will allow you to chamber a larger bullet-- .008 to .010 over the casting should give you plenty of room to do so.

[Drydock]

The problem is that modern .38-55 brass is too thick, based on the much later .375 Winchester round.  THe chamber is correct, but the 1880s chamber specs were designed around much thinner brass.  The easiest way around this is to simply use blown out .30-30 brass.  I also believe Buffalo Arms has correct spec brass as well.  This brass will allow a .380-.381 bullet to chamber, with no machining needed.  It also seals better at BP pressures, much like a .44-40.

Once you get this figured out, these rifles are a joy to shoot, smooth cycling and highly accurate.  Its the ideal round in that action.

[Blackpowder Burn]

Sarge,

I notice that Buffalo Arms sells several brands of brass.  The only one of specified brand is Starline.  Which are you referring to?  Naturally, I've already ordered 250 rounds of brass directly from Starline, since that is the most economical.

My first step is to slug the barrel - I've ordered the kit for that from Meister Bullets.  Then I'll see if I need to worry about all of the other issues.

On the other hand, I spoke to Long Hunter about it, and he says Marlin will fix everything under warranty if I do have an issue.  Seems like the most reasonable approach - let the manufacturer make it right.  Then all I'll have to do is get an action job, put on the Marbles tang sight, then have fun tuning up a load and making smoke.

[Drydock]

The Starline brass is thick, but if you have the chamber machined it'll be perfect.  BA has altered brass that matchs original specs,  I believe this works well  http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,6111.html  But it Marlin will do it, the opened up chamber works well with modern brass.

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Aggie
Starline offers a thin wall brass . It will help but if you ream your chamber then it won't matter .But if you haven't reamed it yet you may be able to get away with the thin brass . I worked with a 38-55 mini Sharps which had the same problem , this helped .

[Blackpowder Burn]

It looks like the problems I feared haven't developed.  I slugged the bore, and it is indeed 0.380".  The good news is that I took some ammunition loaded with 0.379 bullets and it dropped right in.  I've got some 0.380" bullets ordered and will try those, but don't anticipate any problem, given how easily the 0.379" bullets chambered.  In the worst case, soft cast 0.379 bullets should work well as they should obturate to fill the bore.

Now it's just a matter of tinkering with load development.  I bought one box of Winchester factory ammo (at $33 per box!) and was pleasantly surprised to see even it would shoot about 4" to 5" groups at 100 yards.  I was surprised at this since the bullets are only 0.375 diameter.  A good lead bullet of proper diameter should turn in some really nice performance.

[Stillwater]

Interesting thread, and I've learned something about Marlin 336's in .38-55...!

I have a Marlin 336 in .38-55, I also have a Winchester/Miroku High Wall in .38-55. The best case scenario is have one load, that shoots well in each .38-55 firearm. However, I don't think there will be a real chance for that to happen.

I have a Winchester/Miroku High Wall in .30-30 too.

Bill

[Blackpowder Burn]

Further work has shown that a 0.380 bullet with the Starline brass works perfectly.  And the Marlin takes the "original length" 2.125" brass.  My groups at present are in the 1.5" to 2" range, and I've gotten some suggestions from pards that I hope will shrink them a little further.  However, I'm satisfied with things "as is".

While I know there is some disagreement, my research convinces me that all the problems arise from Winchester selling brass that is not truly proper for the 38-55.  They use the thicker walled 375 Winchester brass and headstamp it 38-55.  Thus you can't seat a proper diameter bullet in it for the 38-55.

Use Starline brass in your Marlin, and life will be good!

[Shotgun Franklin]

MY Marlin shot like a Daisy with WW factory ammo. It wouldn't chamber a round with a .381 lead bullet. I sent it to Marlin telling them that I wanted it rechambered so that it would chamber a round with a bullet .001 over whatever the bore was. I just got it back, no charge. I intend to try it when the weather cools. If you have the chamber recut by anyone other than Marlin it voids the warranty. BTW, my gun came back shining like a new gun. I guess they cleaned it up some???

[Short Knife Johnson]

I think the .38-55 is a dandy round.  I wanted one for years and finally got one in a '93 Marlin.  I prefer it over the .30-30, and as a matter of fact, that is why my .30 sits all lonely now.  If anyone cares, I used to be all about the Winchester, but now the more I handle/own/fire Marlins of all sort (1881's to 336's) the more I like them over the Winchesters.  With exception to the venerable '86 and '92's.  But there would always be room for both brands in my gun locker.  It's just that Oliver Winchester had the marketing, and John Marlin had the better designs.

[Blackpowder Burn]

My recent "efforts" show that my rifle prefers cases that are not resized.  The fire formed brass chambers well and improves accuracy.  Also, the Goex Express powder does, indeed, also improve accuracy.  While I know this ammunition with unsized brass would likely cause problems in other rifles with slightly different chamber dimensions, it works well for me in my only 38-55 rifle. 

I can't wait for my first Cody Dixon match! 

[Short Knife Johnson]

The black powder charge would cause the bullet obturate (or "bump up") nicely into the oversize bore.  My Model '93 won't chamber a round with a bullet sized to groove diameter - .382."  So it's just a matter of mixing lead 25 to 1, and presto.  I want to try it out on something, but I'm putting my .45 HP mould to use for deer this year.

[Blackpowder Burn]

Well, a final update on the Marlin 38-55.

I ended up ordering a custom mold from Buffalo Arms.  It throws a 255 grain bullet at 0.382", which I size to 0.380".  The magic load with this rifle is as follows.  It will provide 5-shot groups of 1.5" or less at 100 yards with a Marbles tang peep sight.
- Starline full length sized brass of 2.08" length
- 46 grains Goex Express FFFg
- 0.030" fiber wad
- Hard roll crimp (not a profile or taper crimp) over the front driving band.

One thing I find interesting is that there appears to be zero blowback with this load.  It is a stout load and appears to build the pressure required to expand and completely seal the brass to the chamber.  The brass is shiny and clean on the outside when it is ejected. 

It really rocks the Cody Dixon targets with authority. 

[Scratch]

Thanks for the update Aggie!  I have one sitting at my FFL (10 day wait).  I noticed you changed to the shorter Starline brass and full length resizing.