Blowback in .45 colt solutions?

[Deadguy]

I'm just wondering how those of you who shoot .45 colt blackpowder loads in rifles eliminate the blowback problem.  This past season, I was using a 250 grain bullet sized at .452" with a lubed wad underneath and a compressed 40 grain load of FFF in cases that were not annealed.  Usually there was not enough of a blowback problem to cause any issues, but at the last two matches of the season the carrier did get gummed up on the last stage of each match from blowback.  This year I am trying Big lubes with annealed cases, both EPP-UGs and the DD-ROA, sized at .454", and 30 grain loads with fillers on top as well as full 40 grain loads.  Are there any combinations of the above bullets and powder loads that would NOT be sufficient to seal the chamber of a .45 colt rifle so I don't waste my time/money on them?

[Fairshake]

The bullets you have chosen are meant for other things. The first one is for a C&B load and the second is meant to be used in the Ruger BP revolver. I think your problem last year was the choice of the 452 size bullet. I shoot Frontier Cartridge and my revolvers shoot the best with the 454 sizing. Why not use the JP 200 grain? At close target ranges I load the 200 gr in 45 Schofield cases behind a full case of 2F. No wads or fillers. You can also use the same bullet in 45 Colt cases with 2F. I find that the the 2F gives all the recoil and power wanted but is less than what 3F will give you. I'm sure that DD has maybe played around with the different loadings of your chosen bullets. I'm not trying to tell you that you are wrong in anyway. It might be that they both will work. I did see on some posting where the Ruger bullet was tried as you are doing and with out much success but again that was in a different gun. I load a full case of BP and let it go. I think the only way to stop all blowby with the 45 Colt is to shoot the 44-40 instead. To me the little that I have by shooting Warthog loads is not a worry.   

[Fox Creek Kid]

...I think the only way to stop all blowby with the 45 Colt is to shoot the 44-40 instead...

"We have a winner"

[Paladin UK]

Fer Deadguy.........

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,23170.msg299818.html#msg299818

I`ve shot loads of rds since and NO problems WHATSOEVER!!

Paladin (Whats still gotta smile on his face  ) UK

[Deadguy]

Well, i do remember reading here that some other people, such as PUK, have has plenty of success with the DD-ROA in .45 Colt in a rifle.  I just wanted some pointers before I have to go find out the hard way with a new load before I go to a match (the range here is inaccessible before the snow melts, and the snow often times does not melt until about the time of the first match (or later) so I will NOT have time to experiment with any of these loads before the season starts.  I just wanted to know what works.  And no, switching to .44-40 is not an option!  I know that blackpowder .45 colt can work in a rifle, heck, I had it working 95% of the time with .452" bullets and hard cases.    

[Deadguy]

Bloody brill, Pard!  That's EXACTLY the confirmation I was looking for!  The key is the annealed case mouths, I see. That is exactly what I have been doing.  Thanks again.  Though, I wonder if annealing would also work for the EEP-UGs under the same circumstances?

[Howdy Doody]

I don't have any blowby issues with EPP-UG bullets. I size mine at .454 and I only use Winchester brass. Thick brass cases that do not flex do cause me a lot of cleanup from blowby. Annealing could help, I don't do that myself, but a case that will expand to seal off the chamber helps a lot. So, the variables could also have to do with chamber measurements if you are having some big issues with blowby.
Try loading some brass of different manufacturers and see if you have any better results. Don't even bother with Starline, that brass is too thick and everything, including smokeless, blows by with that brass in 45lc, but I like it for 38spl for the bigger extraction groove it has.

[Bristow Kid]

I am like Fairshake and use a full case of BP or sub in my 92 Rossi and I dont really have any problems with blow back.  I can shoot 5 stages a day with 10 rounds or more with no problems.  I dont use any of DD's bullets yet am using up a bunch I had already bought.  some are 250 grain some are 200 grain.  I preffer the 250's they are more accurate from my guns.  I learned to load full cases shooting long range with a Pedersoli Rolling Block chambered for .45-70.  It was notorious for blow back due to the loser chamber of the Pedersoli.  But loading as much BP as I could and still seat a 550 grain bullet fixed that problem fairly decent.

Just my opinion

Bristow kid

[Abilene]

Deadguy, even if you end up still having some fouling issues with the carrier, it's no big deal.  Just carry a little spray bottle with most anything wet (some people use ballistol, some use ballistol/water mix, I mostly use plain old water), and spritz into the carrier area after every couple of stages.  This will keep it running fine.  In my .44 Spcl '66 I load the hottest round / biggest bullet I can and still get some blowback, and although it has never locked up during a stage, it will do so at the unloading table after three or four stages on a dry day.  Quick spritz of water and good to go.  Of course, if you can eliminate the blowback then you will certainly have an easier cleanup afterwards.

[Mako]

Quote from: Fairshake on Today at 12:32:18 PM
...I think the only way to stop all blowby with the 45 Colt is to shoot the 44-40 instead...

"We have a winner"

He he he...
Pretty much sums it up.
~Mako

[Wills Point Pete]

 The best way to clean the blowback goo out of the action is to squirt something wet in until it drips out the bottom cracks and crevices and then blow it out with compressed air or canned air. Now better still is minimizing the blowback.

In my '92 clone I size my bullets to .454, I use heavy bullets, the Pigeon Roost Slim or the Remington swaged lead. The PRS needs no extra lube, the new Remmie needs more lube than fits into the new smaller "hollowbase". The old hollowbase had enough room to last down the 24 inch barrel, the new small one does not.

I went through all kinds of worry about blowback goo when I started this adventure, our .44WCF brothers added to the worry by convincing anyone possible that two shots with a .45 and your rifle ground to a groaning halt. This is exaggerated, of course, even the great fans of the .44WCF don't claim two rounds. Still, with a heavy bullet and a full charge there is seldom a problem getting through a one day match. And if things start to drag it only takes a couple of squirts from a spray bottle. I suspect that one could also just pour some water in or, like the Marines on some of the drier islands in the Pacific fighting, you could pee in it.
But anyway I spent some effort thinning the front of my cartridge cases and also annealed others. This was a waste of time. Bullet weight and a fairly stiff powder charge. I have put forty grains in, too much trouble with today's thicker cases, Now I run about thirty-thirty-five. Enough to where there is no airspace. I Dunno about lighter bullets, my revolvers both are right on in elevation with the 250s so I don't experiment with the bullet weight.

[Fairshake]

Deadguy, You misunderstood my post I think. The key word in my statement about blowback was "ALL" . If you want to stop all blowback then the 44-40 is the answer. I shoot the 45Colt but with a different approach than the one you were talking about. I load full cases of BP and top them off with Big Lube 250 grain bullets. Do I have blowback ? Yes but not enough to upset me or crud up my rifle. My 92 cleans up easy and simple. Any straight walled case will have blowback, it's the nature of bthe beast. How you load it can and will make it easy or hard to put up with. Thats the only reason I said anything about your bullet choice. Those bullets loaded with filler loads will have blowback. To each his own; I was only trying to help and was not putting down on your project. I wish you well. Later David

[Dr. Bob]

I have to agree with Fairshake!!  Just "fill er up" with Holy Black and a Big Lube 250 gr. booolit and let er rip!!   Not enough blow back to cause a problem.  I do run a patch with moose milk between stages, but the action doesn't collect much crud in several 10 stage shoots.  You just need enough pressure to expand the case to the chamber walls.  Ain't no rocket science!  That is fer sure.  I can't do rocket science!!   Good shooting!

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy, Deadguy!  Howdy all y'all other friends!

I'm another fan of 45 Colt, BP (as much powder as possible), Winchester brass, and the 250 gr. PRS BigLube (tm) boolit.  Annealed brass isn't necessary - with Win. cases.


Like the others have said, you'll get SOME blow-by, but a squirt or 2 between every 2nd or 3rd stage keeps my 1866 running jes' fine.


If I'd known then (when I bought my guns for CAS) what I know now, I probably would have chosen 44 WCF, but I didn't and I don't regret it.



Heck ... the guns I FIRST bought were Ruger Old Model Vaqueros and a Win Mod. 94 Trapper all in 44 Mag.  All great guns (to me - at least MINE were) but I prefer other more authentic guns now.
(Yes, I KNOW how authentic a '66 in 45 Colt is ... or isn't,    but I try!)


As always ... yer mileage may vary! 

[Dick Dastardly]

There's a whole section on this very problem over in the library.  Well worth the reading.  I published an article in the Big Lube™ bulletin about it also.

Here's one more solution, IF your long guns will run the shorter ammo.  The Cowboy 45 Special with a compressed charge of FFFg Holy Black under any of Four different Big Lube™ bullets will do your work with less blowback.  Many rifles will hold up to Seventeen rounds of C45S ammo.  Load on Monday, shoot all week.

I shoot C45S ammo in my revolvers, both open tops and ROAs via Kirst Konverter cylinders.  They clock around 900+ fps, are very accurate, don't recoil hardly at all and take out the KDs with authority.

DD-DLoS

[Deadguy]

I don't think that I'll be doing .45 Cowboy special in my Henry, since it would involve getting the expensive aftermarket carrier, and My Henry is very accurate and shoots well with 250 grain bullets anyway.  However, since the only Big Lubes I have right now are the EPP-UGs and DD-ROAs, I was just wondering if either of them would do the job satisfactorily in .45 colt.  Thankfully, PUK answered that one for me.  The reduced load options I was thinking about would have been for my 1858 Remington conversion, which shoots those 250 grain bullets with a 40 grain charge, that my Henry loves, all over the place.  It's best shooting load is a 200 grain Lee REAL with 30 grains of powder (when the cap n ball cylinder is intsalled), so I was thinking the 210 grain DD-ROA (or even the EPP-UG) being pushed by 30 grains of powder plus a little filler in a .45 Colt cartridge should shoot well too.  I was thinking about using the same load in all the guns for simplicity, but if the pistol and rifle like different loads, I'll just have to deal with it. And if that's the case, I might just go to the Cowboy Special on the Remington Conversion....

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Pressure!

If you want to eliminate blowback as much as possible, generate as much pressure as possible, to expand the case as much as possible to seal the chamber. You can monkey around with special cases special treatments like annealing your brass, but the best solution is to increase pressure as much as possible. The best way to increase pressure is with a heavy bullet and a full load of powder. A 250 grain bullet in front of a case full of powder is your best bet to build enough pressure in a rifle to seal the chamber. You won't notice the recoil in a heavy rifle like a Henry.

Revolvers are a different story. No matter what you do to seal the chambers, you will get fouling everywhere anyway because of gas escaping from the barrel/cylinder gap. Use the heavy load for your rifle. Use whatever you want in your pistols, they will get all sooty no matter what you use in them.

[Marshal harpoluke]

 


The Kirst Converters, with 45LC with full loads, n 250gr Big Lube Bullets do just fine.

[Deadguy]

Is there even such a thing as 350 grain Big Lubes?  I have a 300 grain Lee mold that has a decent lube grove in it, I'll be trying that one out in my Henry with a compressed 40 grain load as well....

[Bad Ramon]

              Years ago a method of sizing straight-walled cases was used to control stretching and arbturation. The common term of that time was called "barrel sizing". Quite simply this was sizing only enough of the case so that it could be easily chambered in the gun. In my experience this was best done using a regular steel sizing die,NOT a carbide die. The regular steel dies had a nice gradual taper, not the same size all the way down as the carbide die. If you were sizing for 2 different guns, you simply adjusted the die for the tighter of the two chambers. This type of sizing was pretty popular before the advent of carbide sizers.
                     Last time I used this method of sizing was with a Cimarron "Colt" about 18 years ago in .44 Special. I also used that method for several years in a S&W Mod.14 in .38 Special. Give it a try....................