41 Long Colt Navy Conversion

Hoof Hearted · January 30, 2009, 06:59:43 PM

Well I wasn't the first to think this up and according to Dennis Adler, Robert Millington has produced a Petterson in 41

I have had a reamer ground to ream cartridge conversion cylinders from 38 to 41LC.
This works very well and the pistol has zero issues digesting .386 soft lead heel base, inside lubed 41 ammo (the bore on a 36 cap and ball runs around .377 to .380).

I understand the negatives to be:

No currently available ammo (~~USFA maybe~~)
Pricey brass (Starline @ $56/100)
Redding dies run about $70.00
A 41 mould will be necessary (see below)

But the positives are:

No more wimpy caliber (200gr bullet)
Another project to keep you out of the house (and away from Oprah)

If this interests you, let me know. Maybe we can get a group buy together for brass

Your total investment (to purchse dies and mould/sizer) should be around $150.00 and this ain't much different than any other caliber.

HH

Branding Iron Bill · January 31, 2009, 03:17:41 AM

I like it. I'd like to do the same to my dragoon when and If I ever get me a Smithy 3 in one lathe.

litl rooster · January 31, 2009, 05:35:46 PM

Quote from: Hoof Hearted on January 30, 2009, 06:59:43 PM

If this interests you, let me know. Maybe we can get a group buy together for brass

HH

Let me know if you can get a better price in a group buy

I read some where you can make it from .30-30 brass, I will see if I can find the source

Professor Marvel · January 31, 2009, 07:20:23 PM

Quote from: litl rooster on January 31, 2009, 05:35:46 PM

Let me know if you can get a better price in a group buy

I read some where you can make it from .30-30 brass, I will see if I can find the source

It is quite possible but that would take some squeezing and rim shaving:
41 long colt rim: .431, case diam .405; rim .050
30-30 rim: .506, case diam .422 tapering to.401; rim .063

yhs
Prof Marvel

Hoof Hearted · January 31, 2009, 11:05:11 PM

Quote from: litl rooster on January 31, 2009, 05:35:46 PM

Let me know if you can get a better price in a group buy

I read some where you can make it from .30-30 brass, I will see if I can find the source

Actually...........

You can fire form 38 cases (whatever length since this is a true straight chamber w/o a throat) into very useable 41 cases. They look awkward but work well.

The best we can do is my dealer price on a large quantity then split them up accordingly.......... $:-\$

HH

litl rooster · February 01, 2009, 06:29:31 AM

I have found them from .50 eat to .56 cents each

I surely don't need a thousand for 1 pistol...

Abilene · February 01, 2009, 08:12:11 PM

Ten-X makes .41 Long Colt ammo. 200 HBFP (.403) - Expensive: $80 / box. They started making it when Cimarron started carrying the P-Jr and Lightning in .41. I suppose a .403 bullet might be a bit large for a .36 bore.

Hoof Hearted · February 01, 2009, 08:38:43 PM

Quote from: Abilene on February 01, 2009, 08:12:11 PM
Ten-X makes .41 Long Colt ammo. 200 HBFP (.403) - Expensive: $80 / box. They started making it when Cimarron started carrying the P-Jr and Lightning in .41. I suppose a .403 bullet might be a bit large for a .36 bore.

Abilene

Not sure you understand $:-\$

.403 is the outside case dimension for the 41 Long Colt, the only ammo to use a bullet that size would be the "Heel Base" loading.

.386 is the size of an "Inside Lubed" 41 Long Colt loading and the nominal inside dimesion of the case.

I would not recommend and would NEVER ADVOCATE the use of an outside lubed (read .401 to .403) bullet in a bore that is nominaly .380.

That being said, the price of Ten X ammo is obscene to all of us reloaders (for the price of two boxes I can buy a quality mould and a set of dies). I'll bet you could buy the bullets and a set of dies and 100 rounds of brass cheaper!!

HH

Abilene · February 01, 2009, 09:17:53 PM

Yes, the Ten-X .41 Colt ammo is heel base. I was basically commenting on the earlier statement that no ammo was available. That's also why I mentioned the bullet size and that it would be too big for a .36 bore. And yep, I agree the price is obscene!

Hoof Hearted · February 01, 2009, 10:30:26 PM

Quote from: Abilene on February 01, 2009, 09:17:53 PM
Yes, the Ten-X .41 Colt ammo is heel base. I was basically commenting on the earlier statement that no ammo was available. That's also why I mentioned the bullet size and that it would be too big for a .36 bore. And yep, I agree the price is obscene!

I see...............

I was reading your post as though you were saying it would work in the conversion that I am doing on a 36 caliber BP revolver.

Sorry if I came off a bit harsh, just trying to keep the uniniated from making a BIG mistake!

On another note, I am surprised that the Cimarron (Uberti) P Jr. and Lightning are chambered for the Heel Base version of this cartridge

It doesn't seem prudent to me. Can you verify the bore and chamber dimensions for me? I might actually buy one

Thanks
HH

litl rooster · February 02, 2009, 07:00:03 AM

not to defend Tenx's price there's 3 of us talking about .41 cal. ammo Supply and demand. It hasn't been that long ago .44-40 was obscenely priced.

http://www.gadcustomcartridges.com/

this might be some help for loading

Hoof Hearted · November 25, 2010, 11:09:26 AM

It appears that it is worth resurrecting this thread!

I reamed a number of 38 cal cylinders for Walt and Jay a while back (to take 41 Colt Hollow base ammo) and the buyers of a few of them are having trouble understanding that a Heel Base bullet will not work!!!

The reamer I made leaves a throat which is approximately .390. This precludes the use of Heel Base ammo and for good reason......401-.403 should not be shot down a .380 (nominal size) bore.

This is a handload proposition (currently) with only obsolete white box Winchester 41 Colt ammo being the factory fodder (if you can find them as Old Stock)...........

Brass:
Starline or form yourself by fireforming 38 special in your cylinder.

Bullet Moulds:
Bernie Rowles of www.oldwestbulletmoulds.com
(super nice and reasonably priced)

Dies:
Redding

Harley Starr · November 25, 2010, 11:16:05 AM

I was about to ask about the .41LC conversion but I'm glad somebody else brought it to our attention. It's a quite a day to give thanks.

Sir Charles deMouton-Black · November 25, 2010, 11:43:10 AM

I load .41LC for a new cylinder on a formerly .38-40 Frontier SAA.

I have a couple of links on the .41 LC, but I won't post them on this thread to avoid creating more confusion.

Hoof Hearted · November 28, 2010, 08:48:27 AM

Yesterday Walt came out to the ranch and we put some time in on the 41 Colts.

Load used consisted of Trail Boss powder and the Old West mould that Bernie made up to my specs. I told Bernie I wanted as light a bullet as possible but the bearing surface had to be at least bullet circumference and contain two decent sized lube grooves, plain based and round nose. What he made weighs 160gr and fills all my requirements. This is a brass 3 cavity mould and it cast perfectly from the first pour.

I have two 1851's that we used, both with stock sights. One of the two is a very early Pietta with a very small almost "half round" appearing bead front sight. The other current production pistol has a taller sight that I would venture to say is about twice as tall.

At the approximated SASS distance of 15 yards (generous) both pistols shot groups of less than two inches off hand with the sun in front of us and to the right (bad glare off the right side). We did this repeatedly and had many called flyers making the group two inches or so (meaning that we could have easily shot reduced groups with more favorable lighting).

The pistol with the taller front sight shot within an inch of point of aim! With the shorter sighted one shooting about 4 to 5 inches high (easily adjusted for by holding at the bottom of the bull or at 6 o'clock). All in all we are very pleased with this outcome!

StrawHat · January 07, 2011, 03:18:00 PM

Just marking this so I can come back to it.

Hoof Hearted · July 16, 2011, 03:54:13 PM

Quote from: Abilene on February 01, 2009, 08:12:11 PM
Ten-X makes .41 Long Colt ammo. 200 HBFP (.403) - Expensive: $80 / box. They started making it when Cimarron started carrying the P-Jr and Lightning in .41. I suppose a .403 bullet might be a bit large for a .36 bore.

Abilene

I posted here a while back asking you if you could verify that the Cimarron Model P Jr was indeed set up for .403 Hollow Base or .410 Heel base ammo. I'd still like to know and would entertain buying one if you could verify that they are in stock.

Thanks!
HH

Raven · July 16, 2011, 05:14:53 PM

Walt and I have approxamately 1000 rounds of Winchester White Box .41 Long Colt inside lube ammo available for $60 a box of 50 to purchasers of Kirst .41 cylinders. Limit 2 boxes per customer.

A steal when you consider that Ten X .41 Long Colt is almost $80 per box of 50

Raven

OklaTom · August 07, 2011, 09:45:47 PM

Quote from: Hoof Hearted on July 16, 2011, 03:54:13 PM
Abilene

I posted here a while back asking you if you could verify that the Cimarron Model P Jr was indeed set up for .403 Hollow Base or .410 Heel base ammo. I'd still like to know and would entertain buying one if you could verify that they are in stock.

Thanks!
HH

Hoof Hearted,
I have several of the Cimarron 41 Colt guns. Lightnings and P Jr. They measure out as:
Chamber Mouth - 0.402
Lands - 0.389
Grooves - 0.394

I hope this helps you. Mostly, I shoot Ultramax for factory loads. When I get around to loading, I use the moly coated from Bear Creek Supply. I bought several thousand bullets from Northwest Shooter Supply. But I notice the 41 is no longer cataloged there. These perform well. You can call BCS (last known number) at Bear Creek Supply (209) 874-4322. Good Luck!

Hoof Hearted · August 08, 2011, 05:57:28 PM

Thanks

I figured they were for inside lubed loads!
(not sure why Abilene is MIA, but oh well.............)