Dust cover mounted peep sight?

[evodude]

Hey, any of you rascaleros out there ever found a peep sight that could be mounted right on the dust shield? I was looking at a Model 71, and Winchester mounted a peep on the bolt. Not only looks good, but wont crowd up any of the tang, like the tang mounted peeps do. 

[Grizzly Adams]

Hi, evo.

Never seen such a critter.  I think the dust cover has too much play to allow for a real steady solid repeatable mounting.  However, the dust cover could be removed, and the rail would provide an excellent foundation for a receiver peep sight.   Theoretically, such a sight could be designed to move to any desired point along the rail, and then locked in place with a locking screw.  

The period scopes used the dust cover rail for the rear mount.

[evodude]

That dust cover isnt nearly a shaky as my Lyman #2!! I checked with Brownells and theres a peep sight with a flat base made for the 96 mauser thatt work. Its long and has a slightly curved mounting surface to fit the rear part of the reciever- if one were to drill and tap two holes in the dust cover and flush mount so they didnt rub the rail when closed, I think you could get the peep to the rear edge of the 76's reciever. http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=16375&title=MAUSER%2096%20SIGHTS is the webpage for the sight. What da ya think??!!!

[ndnchf]

An interesting concept.  Here are a few observations:

A quick measurement tells me the rear of the dust cover on my Uberti is about .070" thick.  Not a lot of meat to tap for mounting screws.  You would want very fine threads.

I have a riflesmith #30 tang sight on mine.  When aiming, my eye is about 1.5" behind the sight.  The distance from my tang sight eye cup to rear edge of the dust cover (when in the rear position) is 4".  If the dust cover sight were mounted at the rear of the dust cover, for me, it would be about 5.5" from my eye.

If you try it, get a spare dust cover. Keep your original set aside.

I did a very simple, unscientific experiment.  Brownells description says the aperature is .150".  I took a mini plastic straw (coffee stirer) that has hole size of abouit .150" and cut a .5" long piece. I taped it to the end of the dust cover and tried to look through it with my normal hold.  To my 50+ year old eyes the straw aperature was a blurr.  5.5" was just too far away. 

Your idea is interesting and may work for someone with better eyes, but since the tang sight works well for me, I'll stick with it.  Good luck. 

[Ground Hog]

I agree with Grizz. Any dust cover I've ever seen, is way too loose to have any consistancy. A good machinist could make you a mount that would enable you to mount just about any sight you wanted to but require doing with out a dust cover. The problem I see with this is Winchester added dust covers for a reason and as I take mine horseback and tracking though the brush on foot I'm not willing to forgo the protection. Also, unless you make it yourself, you would be money ahead to buy an existing available sight. I also agree with ndnchf if you did mount one on the dust cover you'd probably have to solder it or it would shoot loose pretty fast. I also use a #30 riflesmith tangsight on mine.

Ground Hog

[evodude]

I think I'll order one tomorrow and play around with it. 6-48 screws will hold it on the cover and Ill back it up with Acraglass, which by itself would probably be stout enough to hold it in place. I stripped the screw holding my front sight base on a .35 Whelen and Acraglassed it in place- hasnt come off, and its been on there for fifteen years! I can hang it off the back side of the dust cover because of the length of the sight, and wont loose the use of the dust cover as well. I may just Acraglas it on and try it that way, if I like it Ill tap a few mounting screws on later. Ill send some pics when I git er done!!

[Buck Stinson]

When you put that peep sight on the top of your dust cover, be sure to install a front sight with a blade that is 3/4" tall, so it will match the hight of the peep sight.  Otherwise, every shot will hit the moon.

Adios,
Buck

[evodude]

Buck, you have a lot more faith in the .50-95 than I do- Im hoping for 3 or 4 hundred yards- but the moon? Thats stretching it! BUT, if I could only hit it once, I could claim a half inch group at 238855 miles. Now thats some shooting!!

[Wes Tancred]

I have a Riflesmith #30A tang sight on my .50-95. This may be the most common period set-up for the 1876, even if the long staff is a bit on the optimistic side. A receiver aperture sight, or anything that looks like one, will be aesthetically jarring. If you do not like a tang sight, why not consider a barrel-mounted aperture sight, which can be easily installed in the rear sight dovetail cut? These existed, back in the day.

The Skinner barrel mounted peep sight is not a replica of any antique, but is not too modern looking, and it takes interchangeable aperture discs:

http://skinnersights.com/

I have one of these mounted on a Baby Rolling Block in .22LR, mated with a Lyman 17A globe front sight:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=752564

The visual match is quite striking, and the combination works like a charm—I bagged over thirty squirrels, using CCI CB Longs that require precise placement, during the Spring and Summer (they were pests; I am a vegetarian and do not eat meat).

Marbles have a fascinating new barrel mounted aperture sight:

http://www.marblearms.com/bullseyeSights.html

I shall try one as soon as they reach distributors.

[evodude]

Thats what makes this site so great- and interesting as well. Thanks a bunch for the info, boy, you really gave me some food for thought! That Marbles looks quite intrigueing(?), may be worth waiting for. Ill check with Brownells for availability and post later today. Thanks for the Skinner info as well, cool sights one and all! That sight that screws into one of the base holes may be what Im looking for to install on the dust shield. Im looking for something simple but practical, and that may just fit the bill. I know none of these are period correct, but I guarantee if I lived back in them days, Id be fabricating things for guns just like I do now. Penalty for being born to tinker!!

[Wes Tancred]

Actually, barrel-mounted peep sights are historically correct. The new Marbles Bullseye sight I cited above is very similar, albeit not identical, to some originals.

Ndnchf has an excellent point regarding the very thin metal of the dust cover. If you mount the aperture staff directly to the cover, as by using the Skinner low-profile sight you mentioned, you will not be able to adjust the elevation because there will simply not be sufficient thread available.

Also, you mention shooting at three to four hundred yards. I think you would need interchangeable staffs to cover the range from close shooting to such distances, and the tallest staff may look quite awkward and be prone to damage.

Barrel mounted peep sights, with their limited elevation adjustments, would not likely cover the range you have in mind, either. The exception would be the original Remington Rolling Block barrel-mounted sight. This has an ordinary notch for close shooting, and a flip-up ladder with a sliding aperture sight for long range. The original design requires that the barrel be milled, drilled, and tapped to accept the base.

Montana Vintage Arms make a sight like this, called the "Rough & Ready":

http://www.montanavintagearms.com/rough_ready.html

Note that it is available in both the original Remington configuration, and in a flat bottom style that can be mounted on an octagonal barrel by drilling and tapping two holes. This is a historically correct sight, though not necessarily on the Winchester 1876. I think it would not be too difficult to mount the flat bottom version to a dovetail blank, for easy mounting without modifying the rifle at all. This would provide windage adjustment, too. The price seems a bargain for the value.

[evodude]

Im back to the dust shield!! I am going to pick up one of those Marble sights from Brownells as soon as I hear back from them. I have .075 on my dust shield for thickness. All I need is two threads grabbing for a good hold, and I will have more than that. My dust shield is fairly snug, but if it were more worn and loose, you could snug it up by regulating the mounting screw length. wouldnt take much touching the rail to take up any wobble. Im actually pretty impressed with this .50-95 Chappy's accuracy with open sights, and I know it would only improve with a peep. I have both Marbles and Lyman #2's mounted on lever guns, and love both the looks as well as the function, but Im not keen on their huntability. Going through brush with the tang sight up, you risk snagging it. If its down and you need a quick sight acquisition, say on running game, you get the picture. I like reciever mounted peep sights, but thatd pretty much blow the asthetics of the 76 if you installed one. I like the bolt mounted Model 71 peep on the older guns-thats what spawned this idea of incorporating the dust shield as a mounting platform. Once mounted, you can take the aperture out and have a ghost ring for lightning quick sighting, and change apertures for target work. I really think this caliber is capable of 1 1/2" -2" groups at 100 yds, and I enjoy shooting it enough to take it for elk in the toolies! theres a certain romance packing this new 'old beastie' in the woods, and these .340 cast boolits will fill any tag I desire. I do want to stay as authentic as I can, I dont want to damage the antiquated looks of this fine weapon, and I think this will be ok. Another positive is that I can take advantage of the full length of barrel and reciever as a sighting plane, which is enjoyed by a tang sight, but not a barrel sight. Ill post a pic when its done. Im going to Acraglas the sight to the dust shield for its trial run. If I like it, Ill get a hole drilled and tapped and make it permanent. If it doesnt work, I can heat the base with a heat gun and remove the sight. Acraglas will soften up if you get it warm enough to remove things.

[ndnchf]

If you are going to try it out, I suggest silver soldering the sight to the dust cover.  Acraglass is not designed to handle shock, its primariilly a bedding compound.  That sight will have a lot of mass that, upon firing will want to stay still while the gun is in motion.  I imagine the dust cover with sight will slide to the forward most position during recoil.  You can order the Silvaloy 355 silver solder and flux from Brownells along with the sight.  Also, by silver soldering, you could do without the mounting screws entirely.  If the sight doesn't work, you can un-solder it and there is no harm to the dust cover (except loss of bluing).

Good luck - Please post some photos for us 

[Ground Hog]

I think Acraglass will be plenty strong enough if you use the original not the gel. It is pretty amazing stuff and have fixed many a
broken longrifle wrist with it. Just make sure you clean the parts well with acetone before appling. I knew a guy that used to glue
barrel liners in with and never had a problem. The advantage of solder is it is authentic and you can heat and move the part if desired. I sight in smoothbores this way before I brown them. Paint and epoxy remover will remove Acraglass without damaging the finish just be patient and let it soak until it comes off easily. Let us know what kind of acccuracy you get and what effect moving the dust cover forward and back has on piont of impact. Good luck.

Ground Hog

[evodude]

Ill be sure to keep ya'all updated, thanks for bein' such great pards! Acraglas is pretty strong stuff- the saying at the Colo School of Trades gunsmith school has always been" save yer ass with Acraglas"!!!

[Grizzly Adams]

Don't forget that tall front sight that Buck mentioned.  I think your gonna need it!

[evodude]

Not if I want to hit the moon!! Preciate the reminder, Griz! Brownells can get that Marbles Buckeye sight for around 17 bucks.

[Wes Tancred]

I am not sure I follow you, evodude. Are you planning to install one of the new Marbles Bullseye sights on the dust cover? The aperture might be on the large side mounted this far back, and the Bullseye does not accept interchangeable aperture discs. In addition, whether mounted on the barrel or the dust cover, sights like the Bullseye or Skinner would likely not offer sufficient elevation adjustment for shooting at the four hundred yards you mentioned. Note also that these are dovetail sights, and unless you cut or grind off the dovetail, the sight would ride higher than necessary. In the case of the Bullseye, the elevation ramp would not be held in place, nor would it be usable.

It seems to me that the Montana Vintage Arms Rough & Ready sight (flat bottom version)—

http://www.montanavintagearms.com/rough_ready.html

—would be your best choice for mounting on the dust cover. You would have the notch sight when the ladder is folded down, for quick, close shots, and the aperture disc on the ladder would permit accurate longer-range shooting. The sight is period correct, and in the folded-down position would not be too aesthetically jarring.

By the way, while the Marbles and Lyman style of tang sight are indeed prone to wear loose, the original style of tang sight used on 1876s is extremely durable and robust. The Riflesmith #30A—

http://www.riflesmith.com/sightswinchester.html

—is an exact replica, and of extremely high quality. This type of tang sight is not likely to ever wear loose. Some, like Ndnchf, prefer the shorter staff of the #30, since the .50-95 is an Express cartridge (light bullet at comparatively high velocity) intended for a relatively flat trajectory (by black powder standards) over an intermediate range, rather than for long-range shooting.

On the topic of adhesives: glue generally works far better with porous materials like wood than with smooth metal surfaces. But a strong epoxy might work for testing purposes.

[evodude]

Naw, Im not going to mount the Marbles Buckeye sight on my .50-95. I dont think it would work, unless you ground off the dovetail. Too complicated, and noticable. Im going to stick with the Mauser 96 peep from Brownells and fit it to the dust shield. I think itll be a lot less obtrusive and is adjustable for windage and elevation. I want to keep it simple. I ordered a Buckeye from Brownells because its new and intriquing- havent decided where it'll go yet, guess Im an impulse buyer! . Maybe on my 73. What I like about the Mauser 96 peep is it has a very thin front portion, which will blend with the dust shield when installed. Ill radius the underside so it will allow the sight to hang off the back of the dust shield to the edge of the reciever. Cosmetically should look good, like it was an intended part of the rifle, extremely functional, and will take being bounced around in the woods without worring about damaging it. It will work with the shield open or closed. I think it will sit a little lower than the peep on the Model 71, but Im out to achieve the same look. Its a metal base, so I can work on modifying it and then touch it up with cold blue, and for the price of a pizza if it doesnt work out, Ive got a plasc for it in my spare sight box! Im so confident its going to work Im going to block my rear dovetail slot!!

[evodude]

Boy, its a beautiful thing! Let me know what ya think, pards! I dont think Ill even have to change the front sight out for a higher one, upon looking through the peep my front blade was sitting almost perfectly in the rear sight for shooting at 100 yds. We will see tomorrow.