Taylor's made a mistake, what should I do...

Johnny Moon · December 31, 2008, 10:38:06 PM

I'm buying my first lever action Cowboy rifle. I had my gun shop order an Uberti 1873 in .45 from Taylor's for me. Taylor's sent a .44-40 by mistake. They will have to order the .45 if I still want it. My pistols are .45 so is there any reason I should keep the .44-40 instead of ordering the .45? I wanted to cut down on the different types of ammo, but if there is a really good reason to keep the .44-40 I will.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance,

The Pied Piper

Fingers McGee · December 31, 2008, 11:16:47 PM

Send it back & get the .45. If you're just beginning, you need to keep you ammo as simple as possible. If, however, you intend to try BP at some point. The 44-40 will be perfect for that.

Besides, Taylors mistake is as good an excuse as any to buy another gun

Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee

Deadeye Don · January 01, 2009, 08:28:58 AM

Quote from: Pied Piper on December 31, 2008, 10:38:06 PM
I'm buying my first lever action Cowboy rifle. I had my gun shop order an Uberti 1873 in .45 from Taylor's for me. Taylor's sent a .44-40 by mistake. They will have to order the .45 if I still want it. My pistols are .45 so is there any reason I should keep the .44-40 instead of ordering the .45? I wanted to cut down on the different types of ammo, but if there is a really good reason to keep the .44-40 I will.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance,

The Pied Piper
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If I had it to do over again, I would probably get my 73 in 44-40. There was no such thing as a 73 in 45 colt with the originals. As to the ammo situation. I really dont find it at all problematic to have my revolver in one caliber and my rifle in another during a shoot.

Trailrider · January 01, 2009, 11:37:27 AM

Howdy, Pard,
Get rid of the .45's and replace them with .44-40's!

You'll have fewer feeding problems in the rifle with the .44-40, though many get along just fine with the .45 rifles.

Happy New Year!

Ten Wolves Fiveshooter · January 01, 2009, 12:20:49 PM

Howdy Piper

After reading what happened, I say SEND IT BACK, there seems to be TOO much of this kind of thing going on these days, I've had this happen to me twice last year, the Places I ordered from didn't have what I ordered so they just sent something else, like that would be ok, SEND IT BACK... I have a Uberti 1873 24" barrel in 45 long colt, GREAT RIFLE, everything I shoot in my sixguns and rifles is 45 long Colt with the exception of my 45/70, it is a lot easier to load for one caliber, and cheaper, I have pards that shoot 45 long Colt in Black Powder, with no problems at all, you just need to use Winchester or Remington brass, they seem to expand better so you don't get any blow by, I'm sure there is other brands that would do well too, and remember if you shoot BP, don't shoot wimpy loads, you need a full house load of BB to make things work and expand the brass. 45 long Colt is truly a great caliber. ( IMHO )

tEN wOLVES

HAPPY NEW YEAR

Johnny Moon · January 01, 2009, 05:37:28 PM

Quote from: Ten Wolves Fiveshooter on January 01, 2009, 12:20:49 PM
Howdy Piper

After reading what happened, I say SEND IT BACK, there seems to be TOO much of this kind of thing going on these days, I've had this happen to me twice last year, the Places I ordered from didn't have what I ordered so they just sent something else, like that would be ok, SEND IT BACK... I have a Uberti 1873 24" barrel in 45 long colt, GREAT RIFLE, everything I shoot in my sixguns and rifles is 45 long Colt with the exception of my 45/70, it is a lot easier to load for one caliber, and cheaper, I have pards that shoot 45 long Colt in Black Powder, with no problems at all, you just need to use Winchester or Remington brass, they seem to expand better so you don't get any blow by, I'm sure there is other brands that would do well too, and remember if you shoot BP, don't shoot wimpy loads, you need a full house load of PB to make things work and expand the brass. 45 long Colt is truly a great caliber. ( IMHO )

tEN wOLVES

HAPPY NEW YEAR

The gun shop has a CAS shooter, and he said a lot of the same. If i plan to shoot black power then I might want to keep the .44-40 because of the blow by, but in the same breath he mention I'd probably get tired of BP and all the hassle associated with it and move to regular cartridges. I like the the idea of .45 for both so the .44-40 is going back.

Thanks for the advice and help.

The Pied Piper

Ten Wolves Fiveshooter · January 01, 2009, 06:48:07 PM

Pied Piper

I think your making the right decision, loading for one caliber just makes since, and you won't have any accidents from mixing up different ammo, and you're going to love that 45 long Colt, it just says old west all over it, not that 44/40 is bad, but the 45 is like the magnum of that time, just remember when loading BP, load them full house and you won't have any problems with them not sealing, ( or brass expanding ) Just remember some pards don't load there own, so it's not an issue with them, and I say good for them, but for most of us to enjoy this sport, we have to do our own reloading to let us be able to shoot more than if we didn't reload, so in that sense it's better to make things as simple as possible, reloading will just free you up to have more fun shooting.

tEN wOLVES

August · January 02, 2009, 12:06:16 PM

44-40 and .45 Colt's are two caliber you do not want to mix in your shooting or handloading process. You will be very sorry -- every week -- if you shoot and load this combination. I say, One or the Other.

The downside is you'll have to wait to get the rifle you want. On the other hand, used .45 toggle links are easily found. And, a good dealer will call multiple suppliers to try to find the rifle you want. Just calling Taylor's is not very complete service.

Since you already have your pistols, I say get a rifle in .45. If you did not already have your pistols operating to your satisfaction, I'd recommend going with the 44 W.C.F. as it is correct in the rifle, more correct to the period, more flexible, and a lot easier to run in competition for a number of reasons (loading, blow-back, fouling, operation).

Johnny Moon · January 02, 2009, 12:22:12 PM

Thanks again for the advice Pards! I'm getting the 1873 in .45 to stay with same round in both the 1873 and my 1858 Rem Pistols.

I see many Pards stating that the 1873 was not available in .45 back in the day. Just a hypothetical and fun question...

If the 1873 was available in .45 back in the day what would a Cowboy choose .45 or .44-40 and why?

Thanks,

The Pied Piper

Fairshake · January 18, 2009, 10:17:10 AM

I get so tired of people stating that the 45 was not chambered in the old days because it was a bad round or inferior to the 44-40. If they only would take time to research the subject, they would come up with the real reason why. Find a picture of a 1873 45 COLT round. You will see that it had no rim for a extractor to grab. The rimmed 45 Colt came much later and the companies were already tooled up for the rimmed cartridge. The 44-40 round will seal BP because of the slight taper on the case. If you load any straight walled case with a light mouse-fart load you will get the blow back that every one wants to point out as the "PROOF" that the 45 was not loaded for this reason! WRONG_WRONG_WRONG Take a modern 45 Colt case, fill it with 2F and seat a a plain base bullet of around 10bhn and you will see a nice shooting rifle. The 45 Colt round will out perform the 44-40 in any pure power test. A modern 45Colt 92 rifle will take down most hunted game in North America if common sense is used.

Trailrider · January 18, 2009, 01:26:20 PM

Quote from: Fairshake on January 18, 2009, 10:17:10 AM
I get so tired of people stating that the 45 was not chambered in the old days because it was a bad round or inferior to the 44-40. If they only would take time to research the subject, they would come up with the real reason why. Find a picture of a 1873 45 COLT round. You will see that it had no rim for a extractor to grab. The rimmed 45 Colt came much later and the companies were already tooled up for the rimmed cartridge. The 44-40 round will seal BP because of the slight taper on the case. If you load any straight walled case with a light mouse-fart load you will get the blow back that every one wants to point out as the "PROOF" that the 45 was not loaded for this reason! WRONG_WRONG_WRONG Take a modern 45 Colt case, fill it with 2F and seat a a plain base bullet of around 10bhn and you will see a nice shooting rifle. The 45 Colt round will out perform the 44-40 in any pure power test. A modern 45Colt 92 rifle will take down most hunted game in North America if common sense is used.

Howdy, Pards,
Just to add to the above...the .45 Colt's Revolver cartridge was originally a military round only! As such, the case was made from "copper" (actually gilding metal) that was much softer than brass. Combined with the fact that the cartridges were of folded head construction, and with the narrow rim, I'm sure that Winchester concluded early-on that they would have had extraction problems with the straight-sided, narrow-rimmed case extracting reliably from the Winchester '73. The Army was having problems as it was with the .45-70 cartridge, also made from gilding metal (see Maj. Reno's, et al, reports on problems with the Trapdoor Springfields). Had Winchester brought the '73 out in .45 LC (as we call it today), I'm sure there would have been a number of Army officers (and possibly NCO's) who would have liked the rifle in the same cartridge as their pistols (note the contemporaneous terminolody for their Colt's SAA's). All it would have taken would have been one officer reporting adversely in the Army & Navy Journal about the new rifle's failures to extract reliably, and Winchester would have been toast! (Remember, there was a finanical "panic" in 1873!)

It took revision to provide a more generous rim (not that it is as good as the .44-40), undercut, combined with a brass case, and a demand for Cowboy Action Shooting[tm], before the .45 LC was practicable in rifles.

Hope this is of interest.

Johnny Moon · January 18, 2009, 02:04:07 PM

Thanks for the education, good information! Glad to see folks willing to share this kind of history and insight.

I'm still waiting to see what the status is of my .45 1873. Taylor's said Uberti was closed

until Jan 19th so I won't know if there's any .45 1873 rifles available until maybe tomorrow. I just hope I have something by March when our season, my first, starts. I'd hate to have to compromise and spend my hard earned cash on a "this was all that was available" :-( I'd just find another used or new rifle on gun broker, but I doubt the dealer will refund my money without a big hassle. If it wasn't for another CAS shooter working there I wouldn't have ordered it through them. They even needed me to pre-pay because they spent all of there inventory money on AR-15s for the current Obama/Holder panic. Live and learn I guess.

Pied Piper

Forty Rod · January 18, 2009, 03:12:10 PM

Quote from: Pied Piper on January 01, 2009, 05:37:28 PM
The gun shop has a CAS shooter, and he said a lot of the same. If i plan to shoot black power then I might want to keep the .44-40 because of the blow by, but in the same breath he mention I'd probably get tired of BP and all the hassle associated with it and move to regular cartridges. I like the the idea of .45 for both so the .44-40 is going back.

Thanks for the advice and help.

The Pied Piper

What hassle?