Load data for 1876 (new to me)

[Chuck 100 yd]

I just got my new Lyman #49 reloading handbook.
There is much load data for the replica 1876 rifles in 40-60 ,
45-60 , 45-75 with data for AA5744 ,AA2015 ,H4895 ,Varget ,
Trail Boss ,IMR4198 ,Pyrodex pellets and Tripple Seven.

BUT... NO DATA FOR THE .50-95     

Interesting thing said is that Trail Boss can be loaded like black powder or 777 with the case filled to 100% load capacity.
(Above was said under loading for the 45-60WCF.)

Lots of good stuff I dont remember seeing in the Lyman #48

[CavSoldier3ACR]

Thanks for passing the word.  I will need to go out and get my own copy of #49.

[ndnchf]

Seems they have come full circle.  My late 1880s Ideal (Lyman) handbook has loading data on all the model 1876 calibers too 

[Grizzly Adams]

Great information.  Thanks, Chuck!

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Howdy Pards
I have been working with Trail Boss powder and it has been impressive . I called Hodgon and ask about smokeless loading data and the phone went silent and then he said well we only recommend Black Powder or  substitute . Then he finally said or you can use Trail Boss just don't compress it .   I filled my case at   what weight out to 16.7 grains which fills the case to where when you seat your bullet you have a small amount of empty space . When I chronographed these loads they did great I shot 5 rounds the low was 1277 and the high was 1304 when I averaged them they averaged 1290 which I thought was where you need to be trying to duplicate the original black powder data . I am still testing this the day I fired these loads the temp was in the mid 30's and DAMP .
These loads were for the 45-60 .

[CavSoldier3ACR]

Rowdy,

What kind of accuracy were you getting out of it?

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Howdy
I only loaded 10 round just in case it wasn't worth a crap . I fired 5 across the chronie and I was able to shoot a group of 3 off handed at 50 yards I had 2 touching and 1 flyer it was about 2 inches low When the weather breaks I am planning on  shooting more .
Oh the other 2 rounds I shot at bottles busted them . I think this powder might be a ?? safe ???choice when not shooting black . I like being able to fill the case with powder not air . BUT remember DO NOT COMPRESS

[ndnchf]

Please excuse my ignorance, I haven't shot anything other than black powder in the last 15+ years.  What is Trail Boss?  is it a BP substitute or just another smokeless powder 

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Howdy Pards
Trail Boss is a smokeless powder it was designed for Cowboy shooting . It was designed to fill over 50% of the case .
I used it for 45 colts and it worked Great . When you look at the powder it looks like tiny cheerios . It is produced by Hodgdon
and I have just started testing it and this is all my information . When I get the final results I will post .

[Grogan]

Do you have any idea of what the PEAK PRESSURES are using these smokeless powder loads (especially "close to full" loads of Trail Boss)?

I'd be curious to know what Hodgdon has seen in their testing?

There's something that just scares me about using "mid-power" (for smokeless powder rifles, i.e. H4895 & IMR4198) smokeless powder in a toggle-link action gun with large capacity cartridges designed to be filled with Blackpowder and not exceed pressures of ~20,000 p.s.i. 

I'm thinkin IF pards realized the DIFFERENCE in how Smokeless Powder burns (and builds pressure) vs. Blackpowder and its substitutes, they'd be a lot more HESITANT about testing these waters.

(There's a REASON the '76 and its cartridges disappeared rapidly after the '86 was introduced  )



Just sayin...

[Chuck 100 yd]

Hi Gents, In last years Hodgdens Annual Manual there is an article about Trail Boss. They (Hodgdens) say that you can fill the case of the cartridge up to where the base of the bullet would be,weigh this load and use 70% of that weight as your starting load.
I did this in my Marlin .444 and loaded it behind a cast bullet. This is a super soft and very accurate load that any kid could shoot all day long. Vel. aprox 1100 fps.

I plan to try the same thing with my 76 in .50-95 when the weather permits

[evodude]

Ill throw this into the mix, my Chappy .50-95 shoots 2" groups with open sights from the bench using AA 5744. I worked a load up with a 340 grain Lyman cast using 36 grains of powder, giving me 1475 fps. 38 grains gave me 1500 fps, I backed it down a couple grains to be slightly below the advertised black powder velocities. I called Acurate and the tech told me the max load for the 340 grain in the .50-95 Win. was 45 grains of 5744, with a mv of 1775, and pressures not exceeding 25000 psi. Ill bet 45 grains would just about get you to the base of the bullet. Boy, do I love this gun!!

[Grapeshot]

Someone posted a link on this forum awhile back showing that Winchester tested the 1876 with 203 grains of powder and 1750 grains of lead before they started getting damage to the toggles.

Contrary to all the information saying the Toggle links are a weaker design to be used with smoleless cautiously, the winchester tests proved that the 1876 toggles were sturdy enough for a double charge of powder and lead.

I concede that the action is nowhere near as strong as the 1886 Winchester, but I'm not trying or suggesting to try the 1876 using a .458 Winchester load.

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,17995.0.html

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Howdy Pards
I was able to load a few 45-60 rounds with the Trail Boss . I wanted to shoot these rounds again this time I had a ink pen to write down all 5 loads  1. 1263
                        2.1294
                        3.1287
                        4.1278
                        5.1294
This powder is impressing me as a occasional break from Black powder which is the real powder for a 76 .
This was what I got with 16.7 grains of trail boss and using a winchester large ( pistol ) primer . I wanted to see how this load would perform without the usual rifle primer . This is a real sweetheart to shoot and the meister bullets work great I prefer a round nose flat point for the tubed guns .
At this time I am out of Powder when I get more Trail Boss I will give you the results of my findings as far as accuracy I don't see no problem maybe some of the best groups out there .   P.S. Grogan I'm not sure what the pressure is on this BUT it was the only one that Hodgdon would recommend . 

[evodude]

Keep in mind that Winchester DID offer a smokless load for the .50-95 as the powder became available. I read somewhere that these toggle-link guns- the new ones anyways- are built to withstand 28000 psi. The smokless offerings from AA and Hodgdons are at that or below.

[Hobie]

Keep in mind that Winchester DID offer a smokeless load for the .50-95 as the powder became available. I read somewhere that these toggle-link guns- the new ones anyways- are built to withstand 28000 psi. The smokeless offerings from AA and Hodgdons are at that or below.

Brian Pearce wrote the article for Lyman's 49th.  If I read it correctly, and I don't have it by my side as I type this, none of the loads he gives for the 1876 exceed 28K CUP.  That's not PSI.  I don't believe he directly addresses HOW he knows this.  Did Lyman do the lab work?  In any case (har, har) no pressures are given.  Some loads seem to be in excess of what I'd expected, some, like for IMR 4198, seem less than expected (at least for the .45-75). 

[cat1870]

Keep this thread going boys.  I'm starting to try TrailBoss with 300 grain bullets & am very interested in your results.
Thanks,
Cat

[Russian]

Is anyone Trail Bossing the 45-75?  I have been using H4198, but would prefer to go the TB route if possible.  H4198 likes to leave nice blackening on the side of the bottleneck...