My Third Great Uncle MOH Recipient

[Willie Dixon]

Hey All,

I could really use your help when it comes to accurately re-enacting William "Billy" Dixon.  He's my third great uncle, and my avatar is a picture of him.



basicall, I know there is a book about him, but what I'd like help with is this picture.  My uncle looks just like Uncle Billy, and he and I both would like to re-create that outfit in that picture.  As of what we know right now is that this picture was taken while he was an Army Scout in the Texas Territory.  If anyone is good with looking at these pictures and knowing what that coat is made out of, that'd be awesome, or maybe even what type of coat that is, same with the vest, it'd be really helpful.

I make my own patterns, usually basing them off of a single picture, so I can make the coat, worst case, no problem, it's just what's the material? wool? canvas? sheep?  buffalo?

right now, here's my ideas on the colors:
white shirt with separate notched color with a big plumed red or blue tie
dark color vest, such as a blue or brown
guessing khaki slacks
and a dark gray or brown coat

does that sound about right?  Any help would be most appreciated and thanks in advance, I just want to do my Uncle justice.

[St. George]

Remember - there would be two versions of your GGG Uncle - the 'regular' one - in normal working attire - and the 'dandified' one for a photo session, as this one seems to be.

Often, a photographer of the day would supply various items for the session, so there's the chance that he didn't own all of the things pictured.

If you look in the 'back pages' in this Forum and in the 'NCOWS' forum - specifically, the ones dealing with 'Creating Your Impression' - you'll find a number of things of interest that'll help your own project.

All fabrics of the time were natural - wool, cotton, linsey-woolsey, nankeen, duck, etc - so stick with those.

Patterns are available, and several folks have recommended them, so you'll find those in the 'back pages' as well.

(Most of the subject headings are descriptive of the thread - it shouldn't take you long to get on the right track.)

There might be someone who has a better reproduction of this photo who'll chime in - and I'm sure that that'll be a blessing.

Good Luck!

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[RattlesnakeJack]

Based on my admittedly limited knowledge of the fabrics used for men's clothing in that timeframe, I'd say both the coat and vest were most likely wool ....

[Willie Dixon]

thanks for that quick help,  I'm starting to look through those threads as we speak.  I understand all about the "authentic look" as I have a period 1680's Pirate Gentleman's outfit that makes people gawk and stare, my mom and I made all of it from scratch, even the hat.

I actually was wanting more than one outfit myself, a working attire (more of a rancher look maybe) and a dress look like seen in the movie Tombstone (gunslinger with shoulder holster, etc) with the three piece suit, brightly colored ties and vests, with a nice frock coat. 

and here's a coat that I can copy the pattern of, make it out of sherpa and wool, very warm and the same color as the hat/boots!


let me know your honest opinions.  basically there is a playstation game called GUN and it's awesome, have it for five years, probably beaten it 30+ times, awesome fantasy cowboy action game, and there is a buffalo hunter look the hero wears, always wanted his hat, vest, coat and boots, very similar to these.

I'll post up drawings for the vest and coat if you guys think this will work.  I'm just going for buffalo hunter inspired, it's soo comfy with denim slacks or even the real frill pants!  that and I've always been a Davey Crocket fan too.

[St. George]

If you're striving for period authenticity, then the coat's all right - the rest - not so much.

Both moccasins are suede and  have hard soles - originals didn't - and leather hats are reminiscent of the ones worn by the Hippies in the '60's.

They'd all probably be fine if you're looking for a 'Silver Screen' outfit, but if you are, then you're looking in the wrong forums.

Go to your local Public Library and check out a copy of the Time-Life book - 'The Scouts'  and while you're at it, look at the other titles in the series 'The Old West' to see what men actually wore during the era - you can't go wrong, using that as a start point for research.

Scouts Out!

[St. George]

Garavaglia and Worman's fine book - 'Firearms of the American West - 1866-1894' - shows Billy Dixon's personal rifle as being a Springfield Officer's Model Rifle - a .45-70 trapdoor - on page 135.

According to the above, he made his famous shot at Adobe Walls with a borrowed .50-90 Sharps at 1538 yards.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Willie Dixon]

thanks for that help!
basically I was just thinking of the mochassins and hat from a buffalo hunter that made those from kills.  just an idea, since I already have the hat.

okay, there went that idea then... LOL
I'll just play it safe and grab some nice boots, a shirt, slacks, vest, frock coat, and a hat like Kurt Russel wore in Tombstone.  seems like the dressier look like in the photo is easier to find anyways.

thanks again!

alrighty, I've got a basic idea for my outfit and I'd like to share it with you all, and make sure it looks authentic and works well.
basically I've decided the vest and the jacket are probably made out of the same material.  Funny thing is that the vest doesn't look to have lapels and that became an interesting search... turns out it is probably a standard military vest, which it would then also make sense the coat would be the same and then it looks like khaki slacks... so without further ado:

shirt

vest

coat

slacks

hat

and hehehe
holster that will also have some subtle extras, I'm having this custom made so I can help with the process but this is the main inspiration for the holster


what I'd like to know is just to double check that it would look good, similar to the picture, and most importantly period correct for the time the picture was taken probably around 1875... and I'm also kind of hoping that maybe most of it would work for around the 1890s as well, that's why I picked more conservative, traditional attire, because I can't be a NCOWS member that dresses the part of the 1870s and carry a 1894 Marlin!  Doh!

[St. George]

The buffalo hunter bought his outfit in town - maybe having his Sharps special-ordered and mailed to him at a railhead.

Moccasins and fringed or Buffalo-hide coats would've been Native-made - and would've been sturdy footgear - 'not' what was pictured.

The trousers, shirt and coat are fine for the time frame - men's clothing never changed much - look for square-toed boots, and get a tall pair.

You can change eras by tucking your pantlegs inside for an earlier Impression - outside for a later one, or for a 'town' Impression.

The hat style was popularized in 'Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid' and other Silver Screen epics - the style of the mid-to-late 1870's features a far different crown, and those styles can be viewed if you look at that Time-Life sreies.

The rig is from the late 1890's - built by El Paso Saddlery (and probably others) - and a holster from that time frame would be more likely to be a Slim Jim or feature a Mexican Loop.

'Tombstone'  was supplied by a number of outfitters - 'WAH Maker Clothing' being one of the larger ones.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[bear tooth billy]

I have a book, The Encyclopedia of the buffalo hunters volume one A-D that I would recommend, it has
a section on Billy and lots of pictures and info on that period. For clothing info I would suggest
River juntion trade co. catalog, it has lots of pictures and dates. The owner Jim Boeke is very knowledable
on this stuff (563) 873-2387, 

[Fox Creek Kid]

In "Encyclopedia of Buffalo Hunters & Skinners" Vol. I there is a photo of Dixon in the field in normal attire. His face looks half burnt off from the sun and he's wearing a checked shirt I believe.

[Willie Dixon]

Cool thanks everyone. that encyclopedia sounds awesome!

Fox, that's awesome!
I'll try to find that book somewhere, worst case on Amazon!

I actually got those pictures from River Junction I believe, I know they are WAH maker though.  Also the hat look I want is similar to what Virgil Earp (Sam Elliot) wore except more in that lighter bone/nut/cream color like Duke.

I'll know the hat when I buy it, I won't buy one without seeing it first, I have to hold it and try it on, I have a big head, and I like seeing it in person.  Same thing with the boots too.

[Grogan]

I have a copy of the book "The Life of Billy Dixon" written by Olive K. Dixon, but it's been several years since I've last looked at it.

A few minutes ago, prompted by seeing this, I did go pick it up and browse through it briefly.

What I noticed were a few passages in which Dixon describes using Sharps Rifles, both his own and some "borrowed".

He mentions losing his when his wagon got washed away crossing the Canadian River just prior to the Adobe Walls Battle.

In one instance he refers to using a "Round Barrelled Sharps" loaned to him that would have been the ecconomy "Business Rifle".

Apparently his Buffalo Hunting was done mostly during the period when both the .44 (.44-77) and the "Big 50" (.50-2-1/2") caliber Sharps were in vogue.  This would have been a couple of years before Sharps brought out the .45-110

To my mind there's no doubt that Dixon was foremost a Rifleman.

I didn't see any mention of any Springfield Trapdoors, although that was a common rifle in those days and there's nothing to say that he might not have owned one at sometime in his life.  The special ordered "Officer's Model" was a desireable lightweight .45-70 rifle that served well for Big Game hunting where only a few shots were needed.

I didn't find any reference to him using or carrying revolvers, again, that doesn't mean that he didn't, just that I didn't find any reference to it in the index.

As far as your clothing is concerned, for "Town Clothes" it looks like that coat and trousers you show have it nailed although I'd agree that he's wearing a lighter colored pair of trousers in the photo.

As far as hats are concerned most Buffalo Hunters were out just prior to Stetson's introduction of the "Boss of the Plains" hat that became referred to and famous as a "Cowboy Hat".  From images and drawings I've seen they generally wore somewhat of a wool slouch hat, which I believe was common amongst many Confederate troops during the Civil War?  Their hats typically looked somewhat like these

http://www.clearwaterhats.com/civilwar1.htm

http://www.clearwaterhats.com/oldwest4.htm

http://www.clearwaterhats.com/oldwest1.htm

  During the winter hunting months, wearing a "Trooper" style fur hat would probably have been common, possibly made out of Beaver.

Clothing would have probably consisted of tan "Duckins" for trousers and maybe similar styled trousers made of Wool during the winter, tall boots coming up just below the knee with "squarish" toes, not really heavy square toed nor pointy as are modern cowboy boots.  A muslin shirt, often of the pullover variety was commonly worn.  This would have all be worn with wool longjohns on underneath in the winter time when out hunting.  It would have all been topped off with a heavy wool or possibly a Buffalo Robe coat for warmth, similar to these.

http://www.millvalleyleather.com/Mens-Buffalo-Fur-Coats_c_9.html  (you'll notice the price has gone UP on these! )

IF a hunter were to carry a revolver, it would most likely be a Colt Conversion or '72 Open Top, it would have been carried in a holster similar to many of the earlier styles seen here.

http://www.oldwestreproductions.com/_System/_DeluxeStore/ProductList.asp?Category=Old+West+Holsters

From what I know of this, this would probably be a pretty accurate description of what "typical" Buffalo Hunters would have worn.

[Willie Dixon]

Dude!! you found my hat!  that's awesome! that's exactly the hat I was talking about!  I hate the "cowboy" hat, it just doesn't look good on me, and I loved the hats in Tombstone.  The only thing is that I'm a huge Duke fan (who isn't?!) so I'd like it to be that creamish color instead! thanks for the awesome link! great price too!

[Grogan]

Dude!! you found my hat!  that's awesome! that's exactly the hat I was talking about!  I hate the "cowboy" hat, it just doesn't look good on me, and I loved the hats in Tombstone.  The only thing is that I'm a huge Duke fan (who isn't?!) so I'd like it to be that creamish color instead! thanks for the awesome link! great price too!

Hey glad you like it!  (I do too!)

In fact if you want to see it in a real "pretty" color take a look here on this page of the small picture of Jude Law wearing one of these in "Pecan" (I LIKE that!)

http://www.clearwaterhats.com/

Remember you GGG Uncle Billy lived for a long period of time and styles did change as things progressed into the 1900s. 

Depending on when and WHERE he was to be seen he might have also worn either a Derby, a Bowler, or a (low) Top Hat, all of which were common "around town" hats back then, more so than we recognize these days.

[Fox Creek Kid]

[Willie Dixon]

Fox Creek, thank you so much for scanning in that picture!  It's awesome, totally what I was thinking about going for when it came to his "normal" attire, I just wasn't sure.  But I figured since he was an Army Cavalry Scout, and the 58 pilots today still wear similar duds and hats, I was thinking about it.  Awesome picture.. thank you so much.

Grogan, I had seen Clearwater before, I was just looking at the wrong categories! When I clicked your link I was apprehensive at best but then I saw the pic and saw it was under "Civil War hats" and I was like Dag Narbit!!

thanks everyone for your help so far, anything else you can think of, please, don't hesitate to put it here.  I'd like to re-create my GGG Uncle, but I'm also working on an alias name of Willie "California Creek" Dixon, named after him and my cousin/mentor Willie Dunne who was a Secret Service Agent.  Califronia Creek because I live right next to the Santa Ana "River".  Born and raised.

thanks again for all the help.

[Willie Dixon]

OK, so I've been searching around as well, and going off of that picture and the requirements for CAS, I think I have come up with the firearms that I am going to buy to begin with:
1858 Remington Model C&B .44s -  I have a lot of experience with C&B thanks to my pirate group and I think these will be great, I love the look, and my gunsmith friend (also pirate... trying to get him here!) says he can work on them no problem and show me how.
1865 Spencer Carbine - just love that gun, looks like a Sharps in a way, but has the fast reloading!
then probably a nice Stoeger coach gun for the shotgun.

unfortunately I have to order the Spencer in 44-40, 45 LC or 45 schoefield b/c it has to be a pistol caliber. 

so, do these sound about right for him? I also picture my GGGUncle as a rifleman, master tracker, very good at stealth and stalking prey, the fight where he won the medal, he had to be an awesome rider and very fast/quiet.  That story is more impressive to me than the "shot of the century."  I guess that's where I get the rifle "problem" from... lol, I only want those two pistols, and a pair of USFA SAAs, a buntline special (yeah right), and just the one shotgun!  The rest of my dreamsheet is all filled with Browning, Winchester, Sharps, Spencer and Springfield!

[Fox Creek Kid]

...unfortunately I have to order the Spencer in 44-40, 45 LC or 45 schoefield b/c it has to be a pistol caliber...

Why not 56-50? SASS allows it now as do almost all NCOWS posses? 

[Willie Dixon]

OMG!  the 56-50 is a "pistol" round?  That's awesome!  I was hoping for just that reply!  Alright!  Nevermind!  I'm going with the 56-50! Talk about a cannon! hehehe.

I just figured because it was so big, being a 56 cal there was no way.  That and what's the difference between like a 45 long colt and the 45-75 gov't model? I really don't know that much about bullets, just 45 ACP and 7.62mm.  Thanks!

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Go to the Spencer Shooting Society for the "skinny".  .56-50 is not a "pistol" calibre, but is an exception for CAS, I believe.  It may be faster to load with the tubes, but the separate cocking action makes it slower to shoot.  Most stages have 10 shots, which is more than the Spencer can hold. Too many reloads on the clock.

Good style points if it fits your persona, but the Henry is its contemporary. 

And; A lot faster!