What about wrinkles in the leather?

[JD Alan]

This is definitely a Newbie question.

I just bought some leather from my local Tandy store to use for belts. It's 8/9 leather, but it has some, for lack of a better explaination, wrinkles or waves in it, running long ways. They're not severe, but you can see/feel them. I choose this piece because it was on sale. The next grade up would have cost another $2.50 per square foot, adding about forty bucks to the cost.

I've not done anything with it yet, and I'm thinking of returning it tomorrow, and trading up to a top grade.

So what about these Wrinkles or waves, are they permanent? Should I stay away from such pieces? The person helping me select the leather, God bless'm, was only filling in, and I know I should have asked about it at the time.

I'll look forward to you comments. Thanks, JD 

   

[Marshal Will Wingam]

When I select leather, I like to get the smoothest hides possible. With the leather laid out on a table, I run my hand over the flesh side and feel for irregularities. Ideally, there shouldn't be any. It's hard to say whether you are feeling something that will make any significant difference. I haven't seen good, smooth leather for a number of years, though. I think I'll get the sanded back next time.

It sounds like the hide was on sale for a reason. Is there enough without the irregularities that you can use for fine projects? If so, the lesser stuff can be used for practice.

[JD Alan]

I don't believe a picture would do any good here, but I can see and feel the wrinkles. As far as the sale goes, they always have some leather on sale there. I think I'll just return it, trading for a better quality, but more expensive piece. I figure the few extra bucks will be worth it in the long run. I had second thoughts going out the door with it.

Thanks Will, for this and all the other advice you given me. I sure appreciate it. JD

[Dalton Masterson]

Now I may look at things a little different, but, I tend to like some character to my leather. The perfectly smooth pieces have their place too, but on some projects, I like the grain to be very visible, etc.

I have had a piece that had wrinkles in it, that I didnt use. They were almost folds in the leather. It ended up being practice stuff, using the remainder for small projects. The wrinkles were rock hard and very hard to cut.

Taking it back may be the best option. DM

[knucklehead]

Im with dalton on this one.
i sometimes get leather with the wrinkles and sometimes you can see the branding spot.
this type of leather adds to the antique coloring that i prefer over the regular dyes.
as long as i can stamp and or carve the leather its good for me.

the less than perfect leather adds character to my projects, which is what i like on most stuff.
granted there is going to be a time when i dont want the character to be in a project. just hasnt found the project that i have to have perfect leather.

also the wrinkles wont deter away from the strength of the leather, if thats a concern to you.

[JD Alan]

After going to Tandy this morning, and talking to them about it, I'm going to keep it. They were having a pretty good sale going, like most places on "Black Friday", so I picked up a few more tools, and another, nicer piece of 8/9 leather.

Thanks everyone for weighing in, JD

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Boy, you really are hooked. Just like the rest of us. You go to return something and buy something more, keeping the item you went in to return in the first place. I can relate to that.

[JD Alan]

I'm sure my wife thinks it's a disease! Or an addiction maybe

[cowboywc]

I'm sure my wife thinks it's a disease! Or an addiction maybe

Believe me Pard, it is.........
WC

[Marshal Tac]

Simularly afflicted here..... I've been keeping my Tandy store in business for a few years now.... Every time I walk in, it's like a scene out of 'Cheers'..... The manager yells out "Norm!"...... and that ain't even my name...

[knucklehead]

ditto,

Durham used to ask me how much money i had with me so he knew when to stop putting stuff in my basket.
and he would not let me leave the store without buying at least 2 sponges.
i forgot to buy sponges one time. so now the store makes sure i have them each time i go there

[santee]

I have been short on funds since September, thus haven't been doing much, but the obsession is still in full force and rearin' to go.
Wrinkles in leather do add some character!

[Irish Dave]

IMHO, unless they're sufficiently deep to lessen the integrity or functionality of the leather, I usually use 'em. I like the character.

[Trailrider]

Howdy, Pards,
This is why I hand-pick each side of leather I buy (all from Tandy/Leather Factory), which is why I don't buy in bulk from out-of-town!  Since I'm a maker and seller of custom-made stuff, I try to be as careful in selecting leather as possible.  I look at each side and it's a matter of selecting the "best of the worst"!  Because I cut belts from some hides, and make holsters from others, I generally wind up with 50-65% WASTEAGE!  I buy the best veg-tanned leather they have in stock at the time.  This can vary considerably.  It really isn't the dealer's fault.  He can only sell what he is sent by their warehouse, and sometimes that's not the best.

The wrinkles you see/feel generally run from the back to the belly, and are fat wrinkles.  Or maybe I should say "skinny" wrinkles!  We didn't used to see them 25-35 years ago, except on the lowest grades of leathers.  Back then, I could go into my nearest Tandy store and buy their mid-grade leather and it was better than the best you get nowadays.  Why?  Part of the reason is that the cattle are no longer fattened to the point where their ribs don't show as much. (Folks want leaner cuts of beef.)  Another reason is that there is a greater demand from overseas for hides, and the Italians and Japanese, who make shoes and whatnot buy the best they can get from U.S. suppliers, and we get what's left!  

What you can try to do to work with/around the wrinkles (if they are not too bad) is to orient the long axis of the holster along the line of the wrinkle.  In other words, the holster goes from back to belly, keeping as close to the back as possible.  Depending on the barrel length and whether your are making a Mexican loop style, you may need to decide where you need the greatest thickness, as the leather thins out the farther you get from the spine of the critter.  If that makes the toe of the holster too thin, you may need to reverse it.  By keeping the wrinkles in line with the long axis of the holster, they may straighten out when you fold the leather over to make the holster pouch, and/or when you wet-fit the leather to the gun.

Belts are more difficult since the belt will be lengthwise on the side.  Just try to pick the area where the wrinkles can either be minimized or hidden by, say, the buckle billet or the tongue (if this is a belt where the buckle and tongue are separate, sewn-on pieces.  For a single-piece belt, you just have to do the best you can.  Be sure to examine the back side of the leather to prevent putting the pattern right over a split or partial split in the leather!  It's quite irritating (that ain't the word, but this is a family board), to lay out a holster or belt only to find there is a "fatal" flaw in a critical spot.  I know; I've done it!

Hope this is of some help to you, Pard!

[JD Alan]

Wow, what a great response! Thanks for all the information. What I've learned by buying this particular piece is worth way more than what I payed for it. After looking it over again, I realize I can cut out the center section and use it for practice, something I still need a lot of.

Thanks again for a real education, JD

[ChuckBurrows]

Because I cut belts from some hides, and make holsters from others, I generally wind up with 50-65% WASTEAGE!  I buy the best veg-tanned leather they have in stock at the time.  This can vary considerably.  It really isn't the dealer's fault.  He can only sell what he is sent by their warehouse, and sometimes that's not the best.

Yep and that's why I use Wickett & Craig exclusively anymore for tooling leather - IMO it's the best leather out there bar none and if you want the best of the best order their backs which are clean both front and back - using them the thickness is more consistent overall since all belly leather is eliminated and my waste typically runs under 30% when just doing holsters and belts (it's actually less than 20% for me since I do a bunch of knife sheaths which uses up a lot of what would be scrap otherwise). With less wastage the price is generally less than with poorer hides with more waste.
You can also buy their tooling sides and shoulders (a new product not on their website yet - give them a call - Glen Proud is the guy I deal with normally) with a buffed back. On the other hand a buffed back is NOT absolutely necessary - I just bought some tooling sides they had on sale last month and they were clean front and back - on sale the price worked out to be $3.25 a sq ft including shipping. But even their regular prices are under $6.00 a ft for sides and $1.00 more per foot for backs. Plus there are no minimums like some big vendors, but if you buy 10 or more hides you get a discount........They will also split their 8/10 oz tooling sides to whatever thickness you want for free (i.e 3/4 oz for linings and catridge loops) and if you ever have ANY problems they will make it good.

Besides the wrinkling factors mentioned there are a couple of others - older bulls/cows which often wrinkle up on the fore quarters with age and hides from Brahmas or Brahma mixes which are naturally wrinkled..........

Nothing against Tandy/LF (I buy many other supplies such as dies and finishes from them, plus at times their 4/5 oz single shoulders for hatbands and such when they are on sale - they have been quite good overall), but since it's my full-time business I buy what leather is the best - besides the closest T/LF stores is 180 miles away one way all my ordering is by mail.

FWIW-if when I do get some wrinkles or range marks I either work with them or around them depending on the item, USUALLY wrinkles are not a problem - I look at the edge after cutting and see how tight the grain is - if loose it get tossed, it tight I'll use. As others have said they can add character to the finished item dependent on what it is and besides I age everything anyway which often entails adding wrinkles 

As always - others mileage WILL vary......

[JD Alan]

Thanks for that detailed reply Chuck. Funny, I feel like I know you, having watched and listened to you on the holster DVD so much! I realized early on that learning about leather itself would take some time. Donna at the Portland Tandy is a real help in choosing the best of what she has. As many have mentioned, she has no control of what comes in.

Thanks Chuck, and everyone else who took time to respond to my question, JD
     

[HorsePen Henry]

Howdy again JD,
Here is a Slim Jim I am making with a wrinkled up and scarred up piece a leather I had left over from a 7 oz. side. I like this one a heap because of all the eye sores. It'll be a bunkhouse beauty. I'll dye it up now and wax 'er up some. It holds a pistol alrighty.







Nasty lookin' scar, huh???
I still have to sew the toe plug in first.

Horse Pen

[RollingThunder]

XPen, those belong in the LS show us your stuff thread when you get done with em! Can't wait to see!

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Howdy HP

      Nicely done pard, I'm with you on the scars, I don't mean in an excess amount but a scar here and there just gives a piece character, beautiful job on design and stamping, you have good hands to be able to turn out the quality that you do, can't wait to see it finished.

                                                          tEN wOLVES