Going to put toghter a Win. Hi Wall 38-55 B.P. Rifle

Ace Lungger · November 14, 2008, 12:55:07 PM

:)Howdy Guys,
I order a Hi wall casting kit a month ago, and got the call yesterday that it will be on its way to me next week, it was a toss up on what caliber I was going to use, it was between 32-40 and the 38-55, and i have decided to go with the 38-55 because there are so many more option for that cal. lots of bullet moulds, dies are around, and also the brass.
Going to shoot B.P. in it. What I am asking is, what should I expect out of the recoil from a good load! Shooting the 45-70 for a few rounds isn't to bad, but nothing i could sit and shoot a 100 rounds.
I sure would like to hear from some of you guys on what to expect!

Thanks
ACE

Dick Dastardly · November 14, 2008, 04:52:42 PM

Expect fine accuracy. Winchester designed the 38-55 specifically as a black powder target caliber. It shoots ok with heathen powder, but it shines with Holy Black. I'm getting great accuracy with my Winchester Commemorative 'Legendary Frontiersman 94. It was probably the easiest gun I've ever had that found great accuracy with the first loads made for it.

DD-DLoS

Sgt. Jake · November 14, 2008, 06:53:56 PM

Howdy Ace I had a 94 Winchester,delux takedown,26" bbl. made in 1903. With black it was pleasurble,when I worked up a smokeless hi-vel load,recoil wasnt too bad,but that narrow cresent butt dug in something terrible. I traded it to a dealer, for a Shiloh and he gave me 300.00 to boot. I should have hung on to it,I saw it this week,on my way back from the post office. Its in the dealers western wall,up high,with a red, Not for Sale tag on it, hes had it ther for close to ten years now,reminding me,yup I should have hung on to that gun. If you are planing on black as DD said you will like it Adios Sgt. Jake

August · November 16, 2008, 09:33:07 AM

It's not possible to make an uncomfortable load in the 38-55 with black powder! You simply cannot get that much of it in there.

Try for around 40 grains. You'll have to compress significantly to get that much, or more, into the case with a heavy bullet.

You don't specify the manufacture of the rifle, but if it is, in fact, a Winchester, then you should strive to make bullets at .377 to start.

Most commercial, lead bullets for this caliber are sized for Marlin rifles, and are much larger in diameter. So, you really must roll your own, as it were.

With marbles tang sights, you will be limited to 300 meters with black powder loads. This can be frustrating at the sillywet range, where you are getting good accuracy and want to start doing some gong busting at 500 meters. I'm just about at the point where I'm gonna put a vernier sight on my 38-55 hi-wall.

Rusty Spurless · November 16, 2008, 11:30:18 AM

While I cant offer any info on this topic I would be interested in hearing how you make out.

I dont own a high wall but it is on my list & 38-55 is the caliber I have in mind for it.

Delmonico · November 16, 2008, 11:36:50 AM

Quote from: Dick Dastardly on November 14, 2008, 04:52:42 PM
Winchester designed the 38-55 specifically as a black powder target caliber.

Dick as much as I hate to embarrass you, Winchester did not design the 38-55 round, they sorta borrowed it from Ballard.

Steel Horse Bailey · November 16, 2008, 01:06:00 PM

I can't say much, Ace - just have fun!

I have heard that there are two different cartridge lengths out there; and original length and a newer. It's my understanding that Starline makes shells in both lengths.

john boy · November 17, 2008, 01:48:22 PM

Ace ... here you go:
332gr bullet - 1087 fps - 42gr FFg - 10# Uberti HiWall:
Recoil Impulse in (lbs sec)    - 2.35
Velocity of recoiling firearm (fps)    - 7.56
Free recoil energy in (ft/lbs)    - 8.86
Recoil Energy (in foot-pounds) - 6

Rusty Spurless · November 17, 2008, 03:28:56 PM

Quote from: john boy on November 17, 2008, 01:48:22 PM
Ace ... here you go:
332gr bullet - 1087 fps - 42gr FFg - 10# Uberti HiWall:
Recoil Impulse in (lbs sec)    - 2.35
Velocity of recoiling firearm (fps)    - 7.56
Free recoil energy in (ft/lbs)    - 8.86
Recoil Energy (in foot-pounds) - 6

How/where did you get those numbers?

I would be interested in seeing the formula for determining free recoil energy.

john boy · November 18, 2008, 09:03:05 PM

Rusty ... it's all about ballistics and there are several sites with excellent information.
For this Cx ... http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

Rusty Spurless · November 20, 2008, 07:43:54 AM

Much obliged!

Was wondering what kinda thump my Sharps had

Dick Dastardly · November 20, 2008, 07:55:50 AM

Yup Del,

There was a lot of that goin' on. Winchester was the one to put their name on the 38-55 and make it stick. Remington continues to bring 'new chamberings out with their name on 'em. Most came from wildcats, so putting yer name on after the work's done continues to happen.

But, all that said, the 38-55 is a fine target cartridge. A good balance between power, accuracy and recoil. Also turns out to be a fine White Tail round. Same kind of thing happened with the 7mm-08. Great target round and great hunting round, but it's usless with Genuine Powder, were the 38-55 is a fine bp round.

DD-DLoS

Ace Lungger · November 20, 2008, 08:54:57 AM

:)Howdy Fellows,
This will be a very long term project! When I order my action kit, I was thinking it would be 6 months at least, before I would get it! They called Friday, I sent the money order out Tuesday. I should have the hit buy next week! I lack about 20 hours to finish the rolling block. The founrdy that made my kit, makes the kits for the Highest Priced High Walls made in The USA, so it is up to me to fit and finish the parts to perfection, but the real key is the barrel, I have pretty well made up my mind to buy a Green Mountain barrel, 1-12 or 1-14 twist with a High wall contour. I have the wood, a very beatifull peice of Claro walnut, but it will cost me more to have it inletted than I can buy a stock set from Gunstocks Inc. They are who i bought my wood for my rolling block from. And then comes the sights, and I am going to put a Lyman 17 series with level for front, and a soule rear sight with a headley eye cup. That will take a lot of wheeling and dealing to come up with that kind of cash!
But this will be the last rifle for me! I will shoot nothing but Black Powder and a big bullet. If my ship comes in before I get it to the gunsmith, I might put a malcom scope?? I am also looking at Lazer engraving??
What ever cases I buy will be how I have it chambered! I most likely will, buy 3-500 brand new cases, most likely Winchester if they make 38-55 cases.
When i bought my wood, I planned on doing the wood my self, but since then, my back has got so bad that I cannot pull a draw knife anymore, so I most likely will have my wood done, since this is the last rifle. I will be rolling my own bullets, unless I find a place that has what I want. If I have it engraved I will leave it all in white, if i don't have it engraved, I am not for sure what I am going to do! I like case color harding, but don't want to do that my self!
Like I said it is a long term project! I have looked for the gentleman who told me where to order my kit from to thank him, but i cannot locate the thread or the forum, where I got the lead! I tried to get a hold of Wes Stanley for 6 months with no luck, and now I am glad I didn't, I believe the action kit will be twice as nice, got everything I wanted, DST and made by a superour co.
As soon as I get the kit I will post pic's! There are so many decissions to make, Green Mountain id $260.00 plus shipping for the barrel i want! Numrich Has Green Mountain barrels, they claim they are not seconds, but they are a stairt oct. barrel instead of a contour barrel, there barrel is $116.00, but i have to believe, you get what you pay for! A lot of things can change before I get it done. I also have a Clerke Hi Wall action only, and I have been looking for parts to complete the action, instead of making the parts!
To many projects, not enough of me!
I will Welcome any and all comments, thoughts, or what ever!
Thanks ACE

Rusty Spurless · November 20, 2008, 11:49:45 AM

Quote from: Ace Lungger on November 20, 2008, 08:54:57 AM
When i bought my wood, I planned on doing the wood my self, but since then, my back has got so bad that I cannot pull a draw knife.

Draw knives are great for the traditional minded but there is a better (easier) way to go...

Use a rasp! You can remove material almost as fast as a draw knife & have better control... Easier on the back to boot!

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=52117&cat=1,42524

Delmonico · November 20, 2008, 07:19:00 PM

Quote from: Dick Dastardly on November 20, 2008, 07:55:50 AM
Yup Del,

There was a lot of that goin' on. Winchester was the one to put their name on the 38-55 and make it stick. Remington continues to bring 'new chamberings out with their name on 'em. Most came from wildcats, so putting yer name on after the work's done continues to happen.

DD-DLoS

Yep and confusing, cause the 40-65 Winchester is the same as the 40-60 Marlin, not to be mistaken for the 40-60 Winchester, a whole different round.