AJ's .45 Cowboy Special Carrier - Final Report from this Cowboy

[Halfbreed Hoss]

Howdy pards,

First of all, I am not affiliated in any way with Adirondak Jack, nor have I been asked to write this critique. So here goes........

I have now completed 10+ matches, both monthlies and annuals with this slick little device installed in my 1873 short-stroked rifle. I have NOT experienced even one hiccup with her. She feeds perfectly and ejects the empties way high. I have used mixed lots of Goex fff ammo and APP fff ammo, to the tune of over 2,000 rounds, give or take. And the amount of BP and/or SUB that I am saving was well worth the cost of the thing.

Anyone fence-sitting on buying this slick little device should, IMHO, stop wastin' time and get one ordered. A minor amount of fitting (by me) and she was ready to go.

Again, thanks AJ and everyone else involved in the birth of this beauty........

HH

[Dick Dastardly]

Ok, I don't like brass guns, so that leaves me with the Winchester 73.  So, who has the fair price on a long barreled 73 that I can use AJs carrier in?  I've always shot Browning 92s and have not found a rifle that holds better or shoots straighter.  But. . . I should add a 73 to my collection and learn to run it. . .

DD-DLoS

[Paladin UK]

DD says........

But. . . I should add a 73 to my collection and learn to run it. . .

Santa would be only too pleased ta add a #73 to yer list (Providin ya bin a good boy), `n` iffn ya aint well  ......................


Buy it anyway!!  

Paladin (What hopes he`s helped  ) UK

[Sgt. Jake]

   I LOVE my carrier/elevator,Between Jack and his Cowboy 45 Specials and Dick with the Big Lube Bullets,esp. the EPP/UG,they compliment the other so well. Im sure Dicks been a good boy,hes made so many cowboys so HAPPY.                Adios  Sgt. Jake

[Hoof Hearted]

Ok, I don't like brass guns, so that leaves me with the Winchester 73.  So, who has the fair price on a long barreled 73 that I can use AJs carrier in?  I've always shot Browning 92s and have not found a rifle that holds better or shoots straighter.  But. . . I should add a 73 to my collection and learn to run it. . .

DD-DLoS

Dick

I have a 30" checkered pistol grip Uberti in 45 that is damn near new................
I would trade it for a 20" or 24" rifle of the same configuration...............
Or something else that blows my skirt up (OK actually my wife's)...............

[Dick Dastardly]

Howdy Hoof,

I don't suppose my spare Browning 92 in 44 Magnum might interest you.  It's shot Two matches since NIB.  There won't be anymore Browning 92s. . .

DD-DLoS

[Hoof Hearted]

Dick

Sold my 1st run engraved Browning/Winchester 92 and never looked back

I am always open to trades and I have a "unique" taste in firearms...........What else ya got?

[Dick Dastardly]

Howdy Hoof,

How about a full 29" barrel Argentine Mauser K98 re barreled in 6.5mm Gibbs?  All original stock and hardware and in pristine condition.  FWIW, the 6.5mm Gibbs will really reach out and touch someone at 1000 yards.  It's a 30-06 brass blown out and sharp  shouldered and necked down to .264.  I have Two of 'em and the other one has a burrel full figure walnut stock custom fitted to myself.  It stays here.

How's that for exotic?

DD-DLoS

[Hoof Hearted]

OK

We need to UN-hijack this thread
Email me direct to: buckoff@alltel.net

As to the carrier..........

I'm interested! Can someone chime in and tell me what the "working" cartidge length is?
I am thinking about one for my 44 Colt HEEL Base converted 1860 Uberti Henry

[Adirondack Jack]

Howdy.  What's the OAL of your rounds?  As supplied, the carrier is set up for the Cowboy .45 Special, with an OAL of 1.225 or less.  Those that have bought it for use with .44 Russian either conform OAL to that limit, or follow my instructions to easily take a little off the nose of the pivoting stop inside the carrier to gain a little more OAL capability.

[Adirondack Jack]

Again, what's the OAL of your ammo?  There's not a lot of real estate available to place the pivoting stop anywhere we like and still have it work, but if I know the OAL (and just fer grins, rim diameter, though I'm pretty sure that's not gonna be an issue), I can model this with the stuff I have here and  give a definite answer.

[Adirondack Jack]

Pard, I sent ya a direct message with some info.  I do know there are dozens of em being used with .44 Russian with ZERO issues, and the product was actually prototyped in .44 Russian at 1.225 OAL because Bill English at the Smith Shop didn't have a '73 handy in .45.  it really makes zero difference, and the OAL issue can be adjusted .030 or so easily. As to an apparant timing issue, that would be something else, but we'll work with ya on it.  Just call me at the number I gave ya on the IM.  None of this is insurmountable, nor is it a common occurance.  HOWEVER, any machine with two or more parts can have tolerance issues when ya make more than one of em.  Yours might be one of those.  I'd almost bet on it.

What you should know is the carrier we supply is made FROM a stock Uberti carrier. if a stock Uberti carrier will work in your short stroked gun, ours will too.  If not, then it's a matter of the expert smith who installed the SS kit doing  the same thing he did to your carrier to ours as well.  Most of these SS kits are NOT direct drop in parts, but may well need some timing work.

Edit:  re-read your post.  You're telling me your gun has the barrel stub sticking back such that a round that fits inside the carrier won't ride the carrier up into position to be chambered when the bolt comes forward?  I'm no '73 smith, but something isn't adding up.  A few minutes ago (yes, at 1:30AM), I toddled out to the shop and measured three carriers.  All of em have a dimension from the face of the carrier to the face of the stop of 1.235+-.001.  I also happen to have a box ofBlack hills 210gr .44 Russianon hand. they measure .1240, consistently.  So if a pard was gonna use them, I'd suggest taking .015  off the front of the stop to allow .010 clearance.  In no case should the barrel stub be in the way.

[Hell-Er High Water]

NG,

After reading your various posts I checked several of my M'73 rifles.  Both originals and Uberti reproductions.  On none of them does the barrel extend back into the carrier mortise.  The barrels are all flush with the front of the mortise with no step or visible chamfer extending rearward.  It sounds as if you may have a rifle problem and not a carrier problem, especially if you had to dress the front of a carrier to get it function smoothly.  With the barrel flush in the mortise there should be nothing for the bullet nose to hang up on.

That all being said, I am the one that worked with Hap (Bill English) when he was developing AJ's design to be sure that it would work with the 44 Russian cartridge in the 44 Special rifle.  I put many hundredes of rounds through my rifle using both smokeless and black powder loads, loaded with various bullet designes.  My standard load, which functions flawlessly in my rifle, is a compressed load of GOEX 3F under a 200 gr, 44 caliber, Big Lube bullet loaded in Starline cases, loaded to an OAL of 1.230".  This bullet has a very large flat nose (meplat) and it chambers as it should, just like the 44 Special rounds do with the original carrier installed.

If I were you, I would have a gunsmigh check your rifle to see if it was built correctly by the factory and if maybe the barrel needs adjustment within the frame.  Uberti has been known to screw things up in the past on both long guns and revolvers.

Regards,

HHW

[Adirondack Jack]

I put the "please specify caliber" strictly for demographic data purposes necessary to evaluate the number of rifles being modified for use with my cartridge.

One clue to your problems is you say you "squared up" the front of the carrier. Removing ANY metal from the front of the carrier allows it to "float" forward in the mortise, effectively SHORTENING the dimension from the stop to the chamber mouth.  That's exactly backward from what we want.  if there was some unusual tolerance issue with length of carrier VS length of slot, perhaps the back end of the carrier might need a hair of relieving.

the fact that the carrier is used successfully with .44 Russian by dozens of folks, respecting the limits of the design, and allowing that very satisfactory ammunition CAN be created to maintain something on the order of 1.030 or so (As I said last night, we've opened the dimension up to 1.235+or- whatever the CNC machining center can hold (I found em all within .001).  There does exist the potential to slightly trim the stop (as some have done), others prefer to restrict OAL.  It should be noted that supplying the carrier with a trimmed stop is not ideal, as that limits to versatility on the "short end" of the OAL spectrum, as well as causing shorter rounds to allow more intrusion of the second cartridge into the carrier space, requiring added effort in levering to push the second cartridge back. This is contra-indicated in CAS use, where SMOOTH is a goal, and every effort to minimize non-essential lever effort is a part of the design of SUCCESSFUL race guns.

We never intended the product as a reinactors favorite, and do assume there will be some need (and even desire) to work with the limitations of a REVOLUTIONARY DESIGN that has been unsuccessfully attempted many times in the past.  It's working in lots of other guns.  NOBODY else talks of timing issues or jamming on a barrel stem that NEVER should extend even .001 into the internal space of the carrier.  Stand the carrier on end on the bench.  Insert a cartridge and lay a straightedge across it.  If the straight edge clears the bullet, you ought to be OK, period.  If the straight edge clears and rounds jam, ya got a rifle issue.

In closing, my offer to help figure out how to make the rifle work stands, but I notice you are MUCH happier posting  online without the need to cooperate and avail yourself of help.  I received no answer to my direct message offering such help, which would have included a plan to investigate this further, and if possible, compare your original carrier that works with ours that you say doesn't, perhaps look at some photos of the rifle's barrel stub and mortise to evaluate that without needing to ship the gun and so on.  In other words, if we can FIX any CARRIER problem we will, including making it work in an "oddball" rifle if need be, at no cost to you.  I am not seeing any effort on your part to come out forward to take us up on that offer.  I won't speculate as to why that might be.   I don't know what else I can tell ya.
I've got orders to put up, an paperwork to do.  Good night gents.