Tackling the Finish Question

[JD Alan]

Howdy one and all, Mr. No Experience here, trying to understand the last part of the leathercraft process. The Leathercrafter's Journal (Sept/Oct 08, page 27) tells of the following process after carving the cover: Spirit Dye, Neatsfoot oil, Neatlac, Antique, then Tan Kote.       

Is that much stuff normal?

So, Dyes: Oil, Alcohol, Water Based. Oh yeah, Stains & Hilighters, Antiques.

Oils: Neatsfoot (Pure, Blended?), EVOO, Saddle.

Finish-Protection: Neatlac, Tan Kote, Lexol, Beeswax, Kiwi Polish

There's plenty of info on cutting, stamping, carving, sewing, even choosing leather, but hardly anything on the last part. Advice from you experienced pards would sure be helpful.

Thanks, JD

[Ace Lungger]

 :)Howdy JD,
I have only been doing this less than a year, so you take What I say how ever you want! There are a lot of different ways to finish you leather!
Here is how I do mine: After the dye is dry, on the inside (if not lining) I use Gum T. to make the flesh  lay flat, I do 2 coats, after that is dry, I uses to start with EVOO, but now I use Lexol, after that I use EVOO 2 coats, then Pure neatsfoot oil 2 coats.
On the out side, I start with Lexol, then 2 coats of EVOO, then a coat of melted Bees Wax mixed with Pure neatsfoot oil I make it up so that it stays in a medium thichness, you have to stir it or shake it before you use it, I put 2 coats of that on, and then I finish with 2-3 coats of pure Neatsfoot oil. Make sure when you buy Neatsfoot oil you get PURE !!!!
You won't get a high gloss that away! You can get a semi gloss if you put on another coat of my beeswax mixture and buff!
You need to let every step dry befor you put on another!
Remember, I have not been doing this very long, and I just started using the Lexol! I use to skip that step! But I found it at the farm store where I buy my Pure Neatsfoot oil and bought some! If you buy your Neatsfoot oil and Lexol at a Farm store you save a ton of money!!

I hope this helps!
ACE

[JD Alan]

Thanks, Ace, I appreciate you sharing your process.

I am a little confused, because I thougth Neatsfoot and EVOO essentially did the same thing, like one or the other. Evidently not, at least in your case. I've also read that some people mix dye with EVOO and do those steps (dye, oil) together. Maybe someone will weight in on that.

Thanks again, JD

[Marshal Will Wingam]

I've mixed neatsfoot oil with dye in the past when I wanted a even, lighter color but the leather can get too pliable if you put too much on. For a holster, it can get too soft and not hold the molded shape well. Done that way, I don't add anything else.

I use both natural dyes or spirit/oil based ones. I like putting dye on followed by a very light application of EVOO and then Lexol after that has a soaked in completely (I usually wait at least 6 hours or more before putting the Lexol on). After the Lexol penetrates completely, I buff it with a soft cotton cloth to produce a soft shine.

Here's a picture of a rig I did with the Neatsfoot/dye mixture. Notice that all the burnishing on the edges has disappeared after several years of use. I don't know if that is due to the amount of Neatsfoot oil in the leather or some other reason.

[Ace Lungger]

  Howdy Guys,
MW That a mighty nice rig there!!
My Reason for the neatfoot oil, is because I use the neatsfoot oil and bees wax mix! I put it on before the mixture to set it and then apply the mixturer and then apply neatsfoot oil over it to set it!
i will agree with MW, if you used to much neatsfoot oil it would get to softand not hold it shape1 Before I was using the Lexol, and when I run out, I won't buy any more, back to what we were talking about, without the Lexol, I run my finishing process by WG, and he said I couldn't go wrong doing it that way! BUT I only use, all natural dyes.
I am sure, that there are a 100 different ways to do your finish, and MW has been doing this a Long time, so JD, I would follow his instructions over mine! I just do things in a different way! it's like this after noon, I was at a garage sale last year and bout some funky to% roughed butt stocks for a buck each! I am trying to finish my Rolling Block, and I have stock a lot of guns over the years, I spent 3  1/2 hours fitting a stock thatl ended up lacking 1/4" of fitting
So i just got threw ordering me a set of wood for it!!

JD, you would be wise to follow MW on how to finish1
Later Greg

[JD Alan]

I've sent Marshall Will so many PM's asking questions I told him I hoped he wasn't going to start charging me!

Seriously he's been a great help and encouragement, and I appreciate all his help, and yours, Ace!

JD

[knucklehead]

im not sure about doing all these different steps are for when it comes to finishing your project.

i do it this way and it works for me:

cut out project
carve/stamp project.
dye project
sew project together
wet mold project
finish with neat lac after completely dry.

now that Donna at the tandy leather factory said to use atoms wax instead of neat lac. i use atoms wax for my finish.
you wipe it on and buff it out just like car wax.

i have holsters still in use today from when i made them 6 years ago sprayed with neat lac and they seam to be just fine.

[Ace Lungger]

 :)Evening Knuckle head, you are also right! mThere are many, many ways to treat your leather. And everyone is going to do it in a differnt way! I am a big History buff, way beyond the US, and I sometimes intersect with things that i have learned! I also have a good friend that has his great grand fathers saddle, and it looks as good as new, you can see some wear, but it is solid! And all it has every had used on it for 125 years is Neatsfoot oil. But don't take me wrong there is nothing wrong with your method. I was just passing along how I was told to do it!
Like said must be 100's of ways!

JD, you might want to keep a eye on MW, he might want to send you a bill HA HA, Nobody that has ever been on this forum has ask as many questions as I have!!   Also JD, I like to make my own stamps, and as soon as I get my mini mill set up I am going to realy do some playing!
Later Guys
ACE

[JD Alan]

Thanks Knuclehead for responding. I tried wet molding a holster I bought on E-bay a few months ago, and the water stained the holster. Since then I've wondered about wet molding after staining.

Ace, thanks again.

This thread has 130 views, and I assume most of them put some sort of finish on their work. I hope some more people let us know what their experience is

JD     

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

  Howdy JD

       I've learned a lot since I started leather work, I had a great teacher, CowboyWC, and I've learned a lot from Chuck Burrows, I recommend you get his DVD on holster making, but I also learned a whole lot from all the other Pards here on the forum.
      I've tryed just about everything as a finish to see what I like the best, and there again it's what makes you happy on this point, but for me after listening to CowboyWC, I feel as he does on the great looks and protection that Skidmores Leather Cream gives me, after dyeing my leather I let it dry over night to make sure I like the color the way it is, if I do, I'LL do my sewing, then wet my leather and fit my gun to the holster, after drying I wiil rub some Lexoil into the front and the back, not too much, but at least one coat, I'll let it dry for a couple hours, then I'll rub in two coats of EVOO, ( EXTRA VIRGIN OLIVE OIL ), and let dry between coats, you can SUNTAN you leather at this time if you want a little darker shade or tone, but if your satisfied you can go to the finishing step, which is Skidmores Leather Cream, I usually do two coats let dry and buff to a nice natural shine, and thats all I do, but let the final coat of Skidmores soak in over night before buffing it.
    This a picture of this process but I used my natural walnut dye, I did my dye for 5 days, and it was dyed after the holster was sewed and finished except for the final burnishing, the gun was fitted to the holster right out of the dye, after drying I applied the above finish, the gun belt was done at another time and is a oil tanned leather Hope this is of some help, I really like the way Sidmores looks on my leather it gives a totally NATURAL finish and look, shinny, but not overly shinny or glossy, ( plastic looking ) and protects the leather from all the elements.


                                                          tEN wOLVES 

[santee]

Your dye jobs came out great, fellas.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

I like the natural finish you got on the rig, 10W. Nice and rich. I may have to try the Skidmores one of these days.

[Ace Lungger]

 :)Hey TW,
That does look mighty fine! i know you been telling me to get some skidmores, just havn't done it yet!
looking good! I sure injoyed our talk on the phone yesterday!
Later
ACE

[JD Alan]

Wow 10W, very nice work. Thanks for sharing your process, it's very appreciated. It's interesting to me that some people dye their holsters before sewing, others after. One more example of producing great color. JD

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

          Thanks for the flowers Pards, it just goes to show you there are so many ways of doing things, this is one of the things that keeps my interest, I'm always looking for new ways , color/ tones/ finishes. Marshal Will and Ace you can probably get Skidmores from Cowboy WC, or just go to  www.skidmores.com  they have several items, all good but I use there their Leather Cream the most.

                                       You all have a great weekend


                                              tEN wOLVES

[Dalton Masterson]

I found my Skidmores at the Corall West western store in our mall. It was with the boot polish. You might check your local shop, maybe they can get some in.
DM

[Marshal Will Wingam]

It's interesting to me that some people dye their holsters before sewing, others after.

I actually do both, depending on the look I want. To some degree, depending on how much dye I have, too. If I want the back side natural, I'll wipe the dye on. If I want it inside and out, I'll dip it. I like the natural dyes done on a completed piece and when tanning it in the Sun, I like the highlighted look of it dyed after assembly.

[JD Alan]

So Will, after you dye it, do you put it in the sun before of after EVOO and/or Neatsfoot? Also, it seems to me that EVOO and Neatsfoot would be essentially the same thing. Can you, or someone reading this explain what the difference is, at least in effect, between Neatsfoot and EVOO

[Marshal Will Wingam]

I put my dyed project in the sun before putting any other products on it. In fact, I put it in the sun while still wet from dying. Neatsfoot, EVOO or other oils are ways to restore the original oils that get leeched out by water and solvents. Otherwise the leather will loose it's pliability and deteriorate quickly.

[Ace Lungger]

Howdy All,
JD,  Neatsfoot oil is a yellow oil rendered and purified from the feet (but not the hooves) and shin bones of cattle. It remains liquid down to a low temperature, and is used as a conditioning, softening and preservative agent for leather. In the 18th century, it was also used medically as a topical application for dry scaly skin conditions.

Neatsfoot oil remains liquid at room temperature because the fat in animals' legs generally has a lower melting point than the body fat. This occurs because the legs and feet of such animals are adapted to tolerate and maintain much lower temperatures than those of the body core, using countercurrent heat exchange between arterial and venous blood. Because of this, neatsfoot oil remains liquid at room temperature and so can easily soak into leather.

Currently, neatsfoot oil is sometimes made from lard.[1] It is sold as neatsfoot oil in pure form, or neatsfoot oil compound, if mineral oil is added. Some brands have been shown to be adulterated with rapeseed oil, soya oil, and drying oil[2]. Pure neatsfoot oil comes in two forms: regular and cold tested. In the latter, the oil is filtered at 0 to -4°C to remove solid components, as they can lead to 'spewing' (a whitish crystalline deposit or bloom resulting from fat migration).[3]

'Neat' in the oil's name comes from an old term for cattle, and even today the best quality neatsfoot oil still comes from the legs of calves and with no mineral oil added. "Prime neatsfoot oil" or "neatsfoot oil compound" are terms used for a blend of pure neatsfoot oil and non-organic oils, generally mineral oil. Although the "Prime" is marketed as "the saddlemaker's choice", many saddle makers actually recommend pure neatsfoot oil for leather goods, particularly saddles. Pure neatsfoot oil has superior softening and preservative properties, the addition of mineral oils often leads to more rapid decay of stitching and speeds breakdown of any adhesive materials that may have been used.

Neatsfoot oil, like other leather dressings, should not be used on important historical objects, as it will oxidize with time, and embrittle the leather even more.[4] It also may leave an oily residue that can attract dust. On newer leather, it will inevitably darken the leather, even after a single application, and thus is not a desirable product to use when maintaining a lighter shade is desired. However, for routine use on working equipment, particularly in dry climates, it is a powerful softening and conditioning agent that few modern synthetic alternatives can replace.
Never use anything but PURE!

EVOO, is the finest refined Olive oil there is, made from the best Olives under strick regulation!

I apoligies for posting the way I do my treament!
I would do as MW or TW treatment systems!
When I finish a wood project, I do it the Old fashion way!
Later ACE