Installing a saddle ring in a '73 carbine

[Black Powder]

VTI sells them, but I don't suppose I can just fire up the ol' Black & Decker drill and have at the frame...    I asked them and they said, "Any time you drill the frame there are bound to be complications."

I probably don't have the correct tools, and nobody at the matches was shooting a SRC last month that I could see in person.  But there's a number of folks that do have machinist's tools, if I knew what the job really entailed.  Toughts, please?

BP

[Abilene]

Howdy BP,
The hook or saddle part has male threads on one end and nothing on the other end.  The threaded end goes through the receiver and is secured by a nut on the inside.  You drill a hole in the receiver for this threaded end.  That hole may also have a countersink, I'm not sure.  And a countersink is drilled into the receiver for the other end of the hook, to keep it from moving since that end isn't bolted down.  Because of the location of these holes, I think it is a bit tedious to get inside the receiver to tighten the nut.

Note that I haven't ever done this myself, so I'm going by memory from seeing it done some time ago.  I'm sure a gunsmith will correct or clarify this if needed.

Two of my three '73 carbines have the saddle ring.  Some people don't like them, but I sure do.

[Black Powder]

How do, Abilene.  I wondered about whether that nut was countersunk.  It may be that the length of the u-loop ends flush to the inside of the frame, requiring that the nut be countersunk.  I don't know.  There doesn't appear to be a spot for it when looking from the inside; guess maybe I was hoping that Uberti didn't actually make two different frames.  The other part of the u-loop looks like it sits in a second hole in the frame too.  Maybe I can bug VTI and get better information this time.

I like the look of the saddle ring carbine too.  Mine was such a sweet deal, but it came at the price of not having one.  Maybe contact cement...    Obviously, I need to get a good look to see what the orientation is relative to the other screws, etc.

I sure like looking at pics, so anybody with some good close-up pictures of a saddle ring on a '73, please post!

BP

[Abilene]

I don't think there is any countersinking on the inside of the frame; just on the outside.

I already had this pic.  I'll try to take a closeup later.

[Abilene]

BP,
Here's a closer look at the saddle ring.  And since you "sure like looking at pics", I added another of my CAS rifles (front to back 45LC, .357, 44-40, 44 Spcl).  In case you couldn't tell, I like pretty wood 

[Black Powder]

Thanks, Abilene.  Appears you got a thing for case hardening too!  That '66 looks out of place.  I'm only on my first rifle.  I think your wealth needs to be redistributed.

Those pics remind of the days of sneaking out to the woods to look at certain magazines when I was a kid (last week).

BP

[Coffinmaker]

First, firing up the 'ol Black & Decker is NOT an option.  Well, not unless wandering around with two miss drilled holes in the side of your rifle doesn't bother ya   You WILL need a drill press.
Not all saddle ring loops are the same dimension.  Each one has to be measured individually and the "start" for the holes must be center punched or the drill will "skate" even with a drill press.
As you can see from Abilene's photos, the loop goes thru the wrist area of the frame, just above the attachment screw for the tang in the raceway area for the Hammer.  It MUST be drilled sufficiently high to clear the tang itself or ............. you won't be happy.  You may want to consider punching the holes twice.  Small starter drill to begin, followed up with final size.  The hole will NOT match normal drill dimensions.  You will probably have to go to numbered drills or even metric to get the correct hole size as the loop has a very small shoulder area to prevent it just going thru the frame.  Tight dimension there.  You will probably also need at least two drills each size.  Colorcase is HARD and will dull a drill in one shot.
Once successfully  drilled and the loop installed, the inside end should be "flushed" and clearance for the Hammer travel insured.
Personally, unless you have help from a machinist, Consider this a real good excuse to add to your battery of CAS guns.  We have two shooters wandering around this neck of the woods with two funny little holes in the side of the receiver and no Saddle Ring.  I don't rub it in
It isn't a particularly hard task, just very precise and very easy to screw up.

Coffinmaker

[Deadeye Dick]

Coffinmaker,
How are the ends of the loop retained on the inside of the receiver? You said the inside end should be "flushed" in order for the hammer to have adequate clearance. I assume then you do not use a nut. Are the ends peened over or what?
Deadeye Dick

[Black Powder]

Coffinmaker -

I have been sufficiently warned!  I'm not gonna mess with this (if ever) until I find a local smith who knows exactly what they're doing.

Excellent write up.  Tells me that this is not for amateurs.  The holes on either side of my head and above my lip are enough.

Thanks for your input.

BP

[Marshal Will Wingam]

I like the look of a saddle ring on a carbine so I bought mine with one. Every time I laid it down to load, the damn ring held the rifle up and I had to adjust it just to lay it down. It was a real annoyance. Finally I just took the ring off. I put the mounting loop back on so I wouldn't have any open holes in the frame. It's much easier to deal with, now and I have a loop instead of a ring. A piece of leather on the loop and it looks fairly nice. You sure you want to do this? If you decide to go for it and get the holes in the right place, there's a nut on one end of the loop to hold it in place. That threaded end goes to the rear of the frame, as I recall, and it takes a smaller diameter hole than the other end. The larger end is just a hole for the loop to stick into to keep it from rotating. Be sure to double check the orientation of it on the parts diagram to see how it actually gets installed just to be sure, though.

[Black Powder]

I thought I'd read or heard that it was pretty much just nice to look at, but kind of annoying.  I think  the subject was saddle rings...

Nope, I'm not gonna do this unless I come across somebody locally that has done it and shows a passion for SRC carbines. 

Thanks, pards.

BP

[Black Powder]

Heck, it's a darn fine excuse for a '92 SRC with a large lever.  Get an Alfonso Arness rig while I'm at it.  Pay homage to two greats...

BP

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Heck, it's a darn fine excuse for a '92 SRC with a large lever.  Get an Alfonso Arness rig while I'm at it.  Pay homage to two greats...

Be sure to post a picture of it if you do.

[Coffinmaker]

Dead Eye Dick,

Nuts.  Two little itty bitty nuts.  They are actually fairly thin.  There is a bit of space in the wrist area to play with, but not a lot. 
The ends of the loop should be "flushed off" with the nuts to insure clearance for the hammer travel.  On "some" loops, it isn't necessary as the threaded end is just enough to completely tighten the nut.  Some on the other hand are a mite "long."  I'd rather be safe than sorry, so I always flush off the threaded end after instillation.
I've only agreed to do a couple because of the CCH receivers and the ease by which it can be screwed up.  It is simple right up to the point when you punch that first hole.

Coffinmaker

[Deadeye Dick]

Coffinmaker,
I think I will do the same as Black Powder and not attempt the conversion. I would like one on my carbine, but I don't want to risk screwing up the job. I have a drill press and think I could punch a starting mark, but I'm not sure it's worth trying. Thanks for the info. Apologies to BP for hijacking his thread. 
Deadeye Dick

[Black Powder]

Deadeye – No apologies necessary, but thanks for offering.  I was glad to have your participation; I learned more as a result, so thank you.  I was kinda hopin' that you'd take the plunge and do it so you could tell me what you learned that you wish you'd known beforehand. 

Coffinmaker – I don't suppose having a blued receiver instead of CCH changes the equation?  "Oh yeah, piece o' cake..."

BP

[Wolfgang]

Thanks to all for good information.  I have a '73 aquired recently, . . . and got the saddle ring & staple from Dixie.  But have not yet tackled doing anything on the rifle which is in need of several minor "fixings" as well as a barrel.  It is an original that was refinished a long time ago, . . . shot with corrosive primed ammuntion, . . . and allowed to sit with the barrel rusting out for a LONG time. . .     But I'm happy to have it and it will be just GREAT one day.  

Good shootin' . . . .