Why a lynch mob?

[Missouri Marshal]

I originally asked this question on another thread but the originator of that thread wants it to die.  Without bringing up the original topic, I still have a question.
  I don't understand why allot of people are so quick to condem SASS and the Wild bunch.  They, to the best of my knowledge,  are the ones that started this sport.  If not for them there would not be any CAS.  Allot of people seem to have a problem that they are a buisness and making money from the sport.  Why?  Allot of people are making money from this sport, gun dealers, gunsmiths, leather crafters just to name a few but nobody is getting on them for making a buck.  Seems like anytime someone has a personal beef with the Wild Bunch a lynch mob forms on these boards.  Like most lynch mobs they are knee jerk reactions by some people based upon ingnorance.  They have no ideal what is really going on.    Creating more anamosity toward the Wild Bunch and SASS only hurts our sport.  Remember, this is the United States of America, our constitution, which I defended for over 22years, GUARENTEES that we are inocent until PROVEN guilty, beyond a reasonable doubt.   I have not heard or seen any PROOF that the Wild Bunch has done anything wrong.   What have they done wrong?  I don't want to hear rumors, just the facts.  If you don't know for sure and have proof then keep it to yourself.

[Tensleep]

MM... not to be short, but some of the things done in the recent past by the current WB have left a bad taste in folks mouthes.

The current WB doesn't include but two (I think) of the originial group who started the sport. The original WB (#'s 1-7) are pretty much out of the picture.

The fact that it is a for profit is to me not a problem. The fact that there is an illusion that the "members" have input is not either. What needs to be done as in any business is to call users what they are... customers. And as a business, meet the customer's needs. This attitude of "Let it be for us" by customers has driven folks to try and find a way (or need) to take over the "business" rather than to just play the game.

As in everything, people feel the need to be in control. When they cannot, they immediately look for someone or something to blame.

Just my honest opinion, no facts... As I have said before, vote with your feet and pocketbook. Take what you want and let the rest fall by the wayside.

I sure wish that I could talk to RJ Poteet (SASS #3) again, he makes more sense on this subject than anyone I have ever talked to.

[Missouri Marshal]

I ain't tryin to be the defense Attorney for the WB or SASS.  I just don't believe in hangin a man, or organization without a fair trial.
  I ain't been in this game for very long, only about 2 years, but I haven't seen anything done wrong.  People say they have no input to what is happining in SASS.  I'm not sure about that, I got to vote on the latest rule changes and from talking to other pards, things went pretty much as they voted.  Maybe thats just because we voted what SASS wanted but I feel like I had my say.
  As far as if we are called "members" or "customers" shouldn't matter.  Look at BJ's Wholesale Club, SAMS Club, they call their customers "members" do their "members" have any say in the operation...no.  Look at the NAFC, BASS, NAHC all have "members" but when was the last time the "members" had any say about the daily operations of these organizations.  Heck a few years ago B.A.S.S. sold out to ESPN and non of the "members" were consulted about that.  When the NRA bought and built the Whittington Center was there a vote from the membership on that?  Why should we expect more from SASS.
  Here is my big concern.  Since I have started CAS I have meet some of the greatest people in the world.  They have restored my faith in the human race.  I don't want some prospective pard to look at all the negative stuff on some of these post and not get involved because of all the negative stuff being thrown about.  If this happens, we all suffer because we will miss out on another great pard. 
  I DO want to hear opinions as to why a few people are so quick to condem the WB and SASS.  What I DON'T want are UNFOUNDED accusations of wrongdoing.

[Tensleep]

The word members in all the instances you mentioned is just to make folks feel "homey".
In truth the word customer doesn't have that feel, like I said, it is an illusion.

[Will Ketchum]

Missouri Marshal, the NRA is a representative ran organization.. You, as a Life member have the opportunity to vote for the people who run the NRA.  You don't get to vote for who runs SASS.

With that said, I don't have much of a gripe with the Wild Bunch.  It is there game and if we choose to play we need to abide by their wishes.

SASS didn't invent cowboy action shooting, they merely formalized it and had good PR to get it running.  Many of us old time IPSC shooters use to get together with our single actions and have a "Cowboy" IPSC match.  Nothing formal or really organized.  We sure had fun doing it.  Heck we did that in the late 70s.  In the 60s some friends and I would set up matches with our Single Sixes and Hawes 22s which are very similar to what we shoot today. 

I don't think many of us have any problem with SASS making money.  After all I think most of us are Capitalists and believe people should be able to make a fair profit on their endeavors.  Some do get tired of the dictatorial style that some members of the Wild Bunch go about their business.

I am a life member of SASS but I am also I life member of NCOWS which is a membership ran organization where you are really a member and you do have a say in how things are ran.  NCOWS is growing slowly but steadily.  I believe it's emphasis on authenticity and it being a democratic group have a lot to do with it.

Will Ketchum

[Wymore Wrangler]

Missouri Marshal, it's a pretty simple equation, you have to give as much of yourself to your customers in loyalty and respect as you hope they will give to you, sometimes the WB has forgotten this....

[Micheal Fortune]

Missouri Marshal,

I know the original post that your were referring to.  Note that I didn't respond to the story on any of the boards.  And I am not now. 

I believe that if you can't be helpful, funny or set someone straight then you should just let the post go by.

Most of the same people that hang out here also hang out at the Frontier Spot and on the SASS wire.  Mostly the same people go from place to place visiting and trying to be helpful and neighborly.  It's a good thing.

What happened in this case was the "Damsel in Distress Syndrome"  A nice lady got her feelings hurt and made a post about it.  Everyone jumped in to see if they could help.  That's a good thing.  The lightning strike.......

Then no one responded to clarify the situation, at least not for a while and that gave everyone time to get really worked up about the situation.  The wild fire began to smolder.......

This is where the Mob mentality started to form, villagers with torches and pitchforks, lynch mob, C.B. radio wars,  and so on.  As I like to call it, another afternoon at "Cowboy Action High".  It's a bad thing.

The object of the frenzy this time could be directed at the Wild Bunch.  I don't have a problem with the Wild Bunch, or SASS for that matter.  I think they are doing great things for the sport in general.

People are hung up by the customer/member issue.  My AAA card says I'm a member.  Does that give me the right to call them up and tell them I don't like the way they treat there staff?  Sure it does, everyone has the right to complain, but it sure don't mean that I have a vote that's actually supposed to be tallied someplace.  Just come jump start my rig when I need it and I'll keep paying my annual fee or dues.

SASS, you keep getting more people interested, keep printing out a rule book so when I go someplace else I know what to expect, send me my Chronicle on time and I'll keep sending you my money every year.  If I have a big beef I'll take it up with my Territorial Governor or I have been known to e-mail them.  Does the e-mail thing work?, do they listen?  Heck I don't know, I don't really care, it's enough for me to know I told them.

Anyway Missouri Marshal, don't things like this get you down.  This too shall pass.......

[Marshal Halloway]

My related comments on this can be found here:
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=2260.0

[Bear Rider]

Missouri Marshal,

Your "vote" on any issue is an illusion, just like the whole "Territorial Governors" charade. It has no more significance than a response to a supermarket marketing survey. ALL the decisions are made by the Wild Bunch.

[Big Hext Finnigan]

SASS is a for-profit organization built on volunteer labor.  That makes it unique.  That fact doesn't bother me one bit.

However, when SASS (the WB) uses the term "business" or "family" when it suits their needs; when the WB manipulates facts and figures in order to create a sense of urgency, intimacy or distance depending on thier needs, then after repeated abuses, I choose to no longer give the WB the benefit of the doubt.

As always, I would encourage everyone to remember that the local clubs are where you find the loyalty, the heart and the old-time good-times.  They are CAS.. not some phone number in Yoma Linda.

Adios,

[J.D. Stawker]

Why do I join or at least smile kindly on the lynch mobs. Because in my opinion, certain members of the wild bunch are low life, scum sucking, back stabbing, arrogant, lieing, sorry excuses for men who are a complete and total waste of the space they take up and the air they breathe.

Why do I have this opinion, because of the way they have personally treated me. These include my banning from their web site for an irrational reason, things that were written on their forum by "powers that be" and in editorials by members of the Wild Bunch in the Chronicle that I considered to be slanderous of me. 

Have I forgiven them, Yes I think so, (Maybe not, but I am trying). Have I forgotten their acts against me, No and never will. Their previous actions have indicated their character to me and I have not seen evidence of a change in that character since. Because their character has been shown in the past, I judge their current actions by that.

Am I anti-SASS, yes I am. Will I rejoin their organization, not hardly unless the benefits to me greatly increase. I will also not buy firearms from a certain company because their owner is a member of the Wild Bunch and because of his writings in the Chronicle.

If you want details of the things of which I speak contact me offline and I will explain. I will not rehash details of dirt publicly. They time for that has passed.

[Calamity Jane]

I just don't believe in hangin a man, or organization without a fair trial.

Whal now ya see, that thar is the ROOT of the problem - thar can't be no "fair trial" when a person of integrity is under a moral obligation NOT to give full disclosure and t'other side is under NO obligation to say anything 't'all ('ceptin fer what they wanna say to protect their income).

Folks get judged by the way they treat others over a period of time. Patterns develop. When sommit goes wong and the information is incomplete or conflicting, ya goota look back to the patterns ta figger out whats goin on.

Say ya got two daughters. On is the salt of the earth, as honest as the day is long, and got no end of integrity. T'other is a natural liar who will do anythang to stay outta trouble. Ya comed into the room and find sommit broke. Ya ask the girls, "Who done that?" Little Liar says "She did!" and points to her sister. Her sister can't say "She did.' cause her integrity wont let her; all she can say is "Not me." How do you find the truth? Ya don't. Ya just look at the past patterns of behaviour 'n' ya make some assumptions. . . .

[Irish Red O'Toole]

Missouri Marshal,
I think the answer to your question is this:  history.  SASS, Inc. and the Wild Bunch have done some things in the past that have caused folks to get riled up (including me!).  If you're looking for a list of offenses, this isn't the place for such a thing.  Rest assured that the reasons for folks grabbing for ropes was justified.  Now, with that said, do I think some people tend to be quick on the trigger these days in throwing mud at SASS and the WB?  yes, they do.  Witness the Scholarship Fund Wire post from last week.  NO ONE knew what the hell they were talking about and suddenly you have embezzelment charges flying around like flies at a sugar convention.  That's Mob Mentality in my opinion.  Some have other issues with SASS, Inc. (see J.D. Stawker's post for reference).  I can't comment on them, because I don't know the details.

Do we "owe" them some deference because they organized Cowboy Action Shooting?  I don't think so.  Don't get me wrong.  I'm greatful to the original Wild Bunch for getting SASS organized.  But the real place you find The Cowboy Spirit is at your local clubs.  I was at The Cowboys monthly match yesterday.  We had 150+ shooters...and that was just a monthly match.  In April, we are hosting the 1st Annual Trail Town Roundup at Norco.  It'll fill the void in southern California left when End Of Trail moved to New Mexico.  Did we need SASS's approval or blessing to have this event?  Absolutely not!  This is our club's way of rising to the occassion and filling a need in the local CAS community.  That's my point.  The local clubs are where you find that type of character.

Oh, and just a little correction for Tensleep.....  SASS #'s 1, 2, 4 and 7 are all still active in SASS, Inc.  #1 (Judge Roy Bean) is no longer on the Board of Directors from what I know.  He sold his interest in the company and now is just a paid employee.  Although, he still attends many shoots all over the country.  #2 (U. S. Grant) is still active and involved in running SASS, Inc.  Saw him at the last SoCal EOT and he said he's got no plans on stepping down.  #4 (Tex) is still there too.  He runs The Cowboy Chronicle.  Just saw him yesterday at The Cowboys match in Norco.  And #7 (Hipshot) is also still kicking.

Missouri Marshal, hope that answered at least some of your questions.

[Tensleep]

Thanks IROT!!

[Missouri Marshal]

Thanks everyone for your replies, didn't mean to open any old wounds, just tryin to understand better.  Guess I just haven't been around long enough to know the history.  Like I said before my bigest concern is that some prospective pard see all the negative stuff and git skeered and run away.  But like IROT says, the cowboy spirit is at the local level, as long as we can get them to a shoot, we'll be ok.