I need help *** Photos Added ***

[randall]

I recently purchased an 1860 Spencer Carbine. It is an origional unaltered rimfire 56-56 type s/n 19672 issued to the 12th Illinois Cavalry. I doubt it had much service as the condition is so clean. I want to shoot it but do not want to devalue the gun by making any permanent alterations. I attempted to purchase through the Dixie Gun Works catalog a brass cartridge machined and drilled so that you can insert a .22 blank into the rim of the 56 calibler cartridge and then load the 56 with a ball or blank and theoretically fire the Spencer and the firing pin hits the .22 rim igniting the powder etc. The problem is that the firing pin on the Spencer cannot hit the .22 because its too narrow and barely nicks the far edge of the .22 blank. Can anyone give me advice?


















                                       (photos added by T.F.)
Randall

[Two Flints]

Hi Randall,

One of our SSS members is really into shooting blanks (no pun intended ) and maybe you should contact him about using blanks.  His alias is, Major, and he is our resident expert on Spencer blank conversions.  And as soon as he reads your post, he will respond.  I'm not sure why you want to shoot 22 blanks in your Spencer when you could shoot the original cartridge live ammo or blanks:

Why not go this route:



This part will convert your Spencer to shoot 56-50 modern cartridges, and is not a permanent change; you could always put the original breechblock back in your Spencer.
Sure would like to see photos of your Spencer.  If you would like, you can Email me your photos and I will post them for you.

I assume you are joining SSS?  I will add your alias to the posse list.

Thanks,

Two Flints

[Appalachian Ed]

TF - He is not trying to shoot 22 banks. Dixie sells a 56-50 case that uses a 22 blank offset to the rim side of the case for a primer. You then load the case with powder and ball as normal. They also sell them in .32 and .44. I use them in a #2 Civil War era Smith and Wesson .32 with great results.

-Ed

[major]

TF & Randall
The 22 blank is designed to set off the powder charge in a full size 56-50 or 56-56 brass casing that you can then fill with powder and a bullet or just powder.  His best bet is to buy one of the conversion to center fire blocks and just hold onto the original block should he ever want to restore it to original.  You can get the conversion blocks from S & S Firearms in NY, Ramono or I even think that Lodgewood sells them.
For firing blanks I have found the best bet is to use an Armisport reproduction in 44-40 (see this article for details) http://www.9thnycavalry.webeditor.com/spencer_article.html
Terry

[Trailrider]

Hi Randall,

One of our SSS members is really into shooting blanks (no pun intended ) and maybe you should contact him about using blanks.  His alias is, Major, and he is our resident expert on Spencer blank conversions.  And as soon as he reads your post, he will respond.  I'm not sure why you want to shoot 22 blanks in your Spencer when you could shoot the original cartridge live ammo or blanks:

Why not go this route:



This part will convert your Spencer to shoot 56-50 modern cartridges, and is not a permanent change; you could always put the original breechblock back in your Spencer.
Sure would like to see photos of your Spencer.  If you would like, you can Email me your photos and I will post them for you.

I assume you are joining SSS?  I will add your alias to the posse list.

Thanks,

Two Flints

Howdy, Pards,
I'm not sure if this is the same conversion centerfire breechblock sold by S&S Arms, but it sure looks the same.  Regardless, I have used one in an 1860 Spencer carbine for years now (though I don't shoot the piece a whole lot anymore out of respect to its age...nearly 149 years!!!).  Mine happened to be on of the 5% that needed a tad of fitting to the receiver, but with a bit of judicious filing on the BLOCK, not the gun, I got it to work fine.  And, dispite being retired from the aerospace industry, I cannot file a flat surface! 

Once fitted (if necessary) to the receiver, and the firing pin adjusted (you can either leave it so the firing pin projects through with the hammer fully down...in which case you MUST at least half-cock the hammer after firing, to prevent breaking the pin when you open the block...or shorten the striker to make it act as an inertia firing pin, a la a M1911, which is, IMHO safer), you should do just fine.

The only thing about the .56-56, unlike the .56-50, is that the original cartridge used an outside lubed "heel" bullet, rather than the inside-lubed bullet used in the .56-50.  This makes life a bit more interesting.  I made my cartridge cases by shortening .50-70 brass.  But that required either inside reaming of the case, which required a special reamer I ordered from Clymer Mfg., or using a hollow-based inside-lubed bullet.

The M1860 Carbines I've examined had a 6-land & groove barrel, with a tapered bore!  Mine measured .545" across the grooves at the breech, and .535" groove diameter at the muzzle!  As a result, you can get pretty good results using a .535-.538" bullet, especially if it has a hollow base.  I actually got better accuracy using a bullet cast from Lyman #2 equivalent metal than I did with soft lead, but then I was shooting smokeless loads!  Interestingly, the case capacity and the sectional density of the .56-56 (with modern solid head brass) is similar to the .45 Long Colt!  Of course, I DO NOT recommend shooting smokeless powder in guns this old!

BE SURE you obtain a magazine follower that is FLAT NOSE!  S&S sells them.  Or you could turn the face of the original follower.  BE ABSOLUTELY SURE YOUR PRIMERS ARE SEATED BELOW THE SURFACE OF THE CASE HEAD!  A high primer that causes a magazine explosion could RUIN YOUR WHOLE DAY! 

Ride careful, Pard!

[Two Flints]

Appalachian Ed,

Thanks for the clarification;  do you have a photo of that 22 caliber offset I could see? Is it shown on the Dixie on line catalog?

FOUND IT   Link:  http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=8153



Machined from brass rod stock and designed to use a .22 rimfire short in a special chamber inside the cartridge. The firing pin hits the .22's rimfire and ignites the black powder loaded in the main cartridge. Fill this case as full as possible with black powder leaving room for a round ball. Load these cases one at a time in repeating arms; the .22's primer will not always be at the firing pin's point of impact. All chambers can be loaded in the Richards and Richards Mason Colt conversions. The Spencer rimfire case work nicely in both rifle and carbine chambered for .56/50 and .56/52. The .22 rimfire blanks (our stock number XA2710 work well with this.) These cases cannot be used in the 1866 Winchester and the Henry because the guns have two firing pin lugs. Sold each $4.95 or 6/$27.00. Please specify in comment section when ordering.
Thanks again,

Two Flints

[12 th Illinois]

Just wondering if you know what company carried your Spencer. I reenactment with the 12th Illinois Cavalry Company F

[Two Flints]

Hi 12th Illinois,

Randall never asked me to check his serial #, but when I did, #19672 - and the numbers before and after his #, those Spencer Carbines were issued to members of Co. G, 18th NY Volunteer Cavalry on/about May 10, 1865.

However, my serial # lists are not necessarily 100% correct.  I just 'regurgitate what I read on the Spencer serial # pages I have on file.

Two Flints 

[randall]

Help again!!!I have attempted to obtain a center frie breech bloc from the suggested vendors, S and S and Buffalo arms. Are there any other sources?

[Two Flints]

    I'm very surprised that S&S and Buffalo Arms are out of the centerfire breech blocks for your Spencer.  You might also want to try:

Gad Custom Cartridges
N2143 County Highway C
Medford Wisconsin 54451

Phone: 715-748-0919 (ask for Bernold)
E-mail: info@gadcustomcartridges.com

or go to his web site http://gadcustomcartridges.com/

Two Flints

[randall]

thanks man- one more thing since this is a 56-56 i wont be abel to shoot 56-50 live rounds correct? there is no source for them commercially?

[Two Flints]

Randall,

Try this:

http://gadcustomcartridges.com/

[Fox Creek Kid]

The 56-56 & the 56-50 are two TOTALLY different cartridges. Suffice to say for here that they are NOT interchangeable.

[SEA3PO]

I ordered a S&S breachblock four months ago....still waiting....sent them a e-mail and they replied that they were having problems with their supplier.....   Think I would find a new supplier...

Joel

[Two Flints]

SEA3PO,

Yup, they told me the same thing about 2 weeks ago.  The apologized for the delay, but have been unable to get the breechblocks from their supplier...hopefully within the next monththey were hoping

Two Flints