What's your favorite Western?

[Stillwater]

-RIO BRAVO
-SILVERADO
-100 RIFLES
-TOMBSTONE
-THE SEARCHERS
-OPEN RANGE
-EL DORADO
-THE TRACKERS
-QUIGLEY DOWN UNDER

BTW, SAMMY DAVIS,JR. WAS THE FASTEST GUN IN HOLLYWOOD. KNOWN FACT YA'LL!!    

Living as I have, in the western part of Los Angeles (Called Beverly Hills Adjacent), and having worked in Beverly Hills for several years, during my work life. The Western actors I met always named Glen Ford as the fastest draw of any Western Star.

An authority on the subject was Jimmy Stewart, who also told me that.

A shooting range I have patronized for over forty years, Angeles Shooting Ranges, always had many Movie actors and other movie people, patroizing the place. There is where I also heard that general consensus.

I saw Hugh O'Brian, on a TV show, demonstrage his fast draw against timers and he was the fastest I have ever SEEN, except for a Montana man named Ed McGivern, whom I saw demonstrage his fast draw at a fair, when I was a little kid growing up in Montana.

Bill

[Mean Bob Mean]

In that video, Davis is not using a 4 3/4 inch colt.  Nice

[The Black Spot]

Ford was fastest actor
Davis was a comedian
IIRC

[Stillwater]

Ford was fastest actor
Davis was a comedian
IIRC

I agree

Bill

[The Trinity Kid]

Where's that put "The King of Cowboys" Roy Rogers?  I've always heard he was fast.  In fact, I've heard it said that he would outdraw John Wayne.   I reserve the right to be wrong...

--TK

[Mean Bob Mean]

Arvo Ojala had them all beat hands down.  A little history and info from the Fast Draw Association:

http://www.cowboyfastdraw.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=42&Itemid=26

During the 1950s there became a need in Hollywood for gun coaches and trainers for many of the movie actors who needed to become proficient with six-guns.  Arvo Ojala was the most popular coach to the stars and his pupils have become a 'who's who' list of celebrities including Sammy Davis Jr., Frank Sinatra, Jerry Lewis, Dale Robertson, James Arness and Hugh O'Brian to name a few.  Arvo was also a noted maker of fast draw holsters, but he was most famous for getting gunned down by Marshal Matt Dillon in the opening segment each and every week in the longest running TV western in history, "Gunsmoke."  Arvo once told me that the royalties that he earned from that one scene paid for many Cadillacs over the years.

And this biography on Ojala:

http://secretsofthefastdraw.com/biography/

[Shawnee McGrutt]

I'll throw my two cents worth into this.
1. Quigley Down Under
2. Crossfire Trail
3. The Cowboys
4 Open Range
5. Appaloosa
These are the top five horse operas in my opinon.

[Octagonal Barrel]

For me,
True Grit (the recent Coen Bros. one)
Appaloosa
The Proposition (really, an Austrailian, but so close to the Western genre I'll add it anyway).
Cheyenne Social Club (for comedy).
I liked Wyatt Earp well, better than Tombstone, but I'm not sure I'd put either film in the same category as the top 3 I mentioned.
For a series, Deadwood is pretty extroardinary for a number of reasons.  But I think I'd still hold to the first 3 above as my favorites.

[The Trinity Kid]

Uh, petrinal, everybody already knows that Hollywierd is full of lies, exaggeration, and all that crap.  Nobody needed to be told that.

Another thing we didn't need was to have our nation insulted the day after our 247th year of Independence. 

Now, let's all get back to the topic of good movies, instead of political......stuff.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The movie "Gold is Where you find it"  is pretty good.  We watched it at out local theater yesterday.  Most of the outdoor scenes were filmed in my county, at the LaGrange gold mine in 1937-38.  I did happen to see a rifle that looks suspiciously like mine in the show too.    Hanging on the wall of a house.  How can anyone not like George Hays?

--TK

[Stillwater]

The scene of the charge up San Juan Hill was one of the best scripted battle scenes I have seen. Since John Millius directed the movie, I expected nothing less, and I wasn't disappointed.

This movie also has Tom Berenger and Gary Busey. Berenger plays the part of Colonel Theodore Roosevelt, and is pretty good at it. Gary Busey was not as goofy as he normally is, in fact he did a credible job. Other well known actors had small parts in this production. Brian Keith played the part of the President. George Hamilton played the part of William Randolph Hearst.

This movie seems to be a sleeper, as I haven't seen it around before. However, this movie well worth the money, and the time spent viewing it.

Bill



as  a matter of fact, it is one of the worse "western movies" I have ever seen.  Absolute hollywood scum, that has little to do with reality. By the way, in the San  Juan Hill we the spanish didnt have  neither machine guns nor german advisers (it seems so in teh movie). We just had some artillery (cordite, not BP) and Mausers (and probably some rolling blocks) and guts...


of course, in the best Hollywood tradition, the film denigrates spanish soldiers and glorifies american troops,  specially Theodore Roosevelt , forgetting the fact that  it was 21,000 american troops against 1700 spanish fighters, who fought to the last drop of blood.

In fact, 300 spanish soldiers, the survivers from those 1700, contained a troop of more than 20,000 americans during a whole day. Only 8 spanish soldiers finally  survived when the americans took the position. Their captain, Patricio de Antonio, after ending all ammo for their Mauser rifles, ordered his men to use their bayonets....ready to give their last drop of blood. ...maybe these soldiers deserved a movie too..... but for Hollywood and the american public, they didnt exists or were just...dirty spanish troops...who, by the way, wore a uniform much more adequate for a tropical weather than the more stylish american uniform..


let me add that the famous attack, by the Rough Riders,  which fougth on foot that time, save Teddy,  who by the way didnt use a single action by a COLT navy double action in 38 colt, didnt happen until the spanish position was fully bombed, and Theodore Roosevelt´s famous assault, is, according to most serious historians...overexagerated by himself. He was mounted, but the rought riders attacked..when the spanish were...almost fully exterminated.

the several attacks by the american troops, failing to gain the spanish position, leaving thousands of death in every trial, was  determinant factor in the adoption of the MAUSER TYPE RIFLE, by the americans, the famous Springfield years later, as the american were highly impressed by the resistance of the spanish fighters plus the obvious cadence and advantages of the MAUSER 98 rifle, used by the Spanish, the best rifle of it´s time. I repeat, no machine guns in the spanish side, that belongs to Millious´s imagination.

the movie, besides his  patriotric manipulations of history, overexagerating, is plagued by poor acting, a really mediocre soundtrack and a horrible photography.


in general Hollywood has deformed and falsified history, making us believeing what probably never existed or was  totally  different. A tradition inherited from period fiction writers, who transformed a showman, like BUFFALO BILL, into the most famous person of his time.

by the way, Cuba was not freed by american troops...they just invaded the country and became it  into an american colony...sending out the spanish and the european investors, like the british, who owned the railroads. America didnt free Cuba, they just...took it for them.,  in other words, a banana republic under the USA hands. That created a great antiamerican feeling in the population that finally  ended in a communist revolution. Today is probably the most antiamerican nation in the world.

that type of policy, started mainly by Teddy Roosevelt, of  involving military in foreign affairs, has led the USA to failure after failure in foreign policy, creating more problems than solving them. That´s why Teddy Roosevelt is not much admired outside the USA, besides his overexagerated stories about SAN JUAN HILL....he  obviously created himself his legend,  with political goals, that outside the USA are seen... as quite controversial. We just dont believe much in heroes in this part of the world. They stink.

if Teddy was on a horse, being the only one so, according to his own words, he would have become a primary target, and his chances of surviving were zero. Something obviously fails in his version of the charge, and everything seems to indicate that they charged when the last spanish defenders were almost aniquilated, as in fact, they were. The rest is believing in SANTA, but I am too old for 7 year olds tales.

my favourite western  movies are OUTLAW JOSEY WALES, W73 and  the Man who shot Liberty Valance.

Do you just hate America, or is  it Americans as a whole, that you don't like?

Bill

[RickB]

That is your opinion and your retelling of history. Remember, history is written by the victors not the losers.

[PJ Hardtack]

We got the "language police" posting on this forum and now the "movie police"? Can't blame Pet for trying to salvage something of Spanish honour, but not at the expense of trashing an American icon like Teddy R. Simply not on.

The "Outlaw Josey Wales" is worth watching because of Eastwood and two Canadians, Chief Dan George simply being himself and John Vernon, who played the tracker that found Wales and let him go. Other than that .....

"Winchester '73" was pure Hollywood hype and fantasy. Shooting a postage stamp pasted over the hole in a washer .... ? Yeah, right! Even better, all this shooting was done right smack in the middle of town with buildings all around. Pure Hollywood hogwash all the way.

"The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance"? Not even John Wayne, Jimmy Stewart or Lee Marvin could save that piece of  hyped tripe.

For pure, fanciful western trash, you can't beat the "Spaghetti Westerns" like the Eastwood flicks, the best scenes being the desert landscapes in the "western" part of Spain. Pure hogwash, but good fun with lots of scuzzy looking characters.

[PJ Hardtack]

OK - you've made your point. And in so doing trashed both "Rough Riders" and an iconic American hero from a time when America was on the rise to becoming a world power, on the occasion of their national holiday. Now that's really a class act.

I leave you to the tender mercies of my American friends .....

I shudder to think what you might have to say about movies depicting the British Raj in India and the heroes from that era. Our national holiday was the 1st of July, so you missed an opportunity to be offensive to Canadians of British extraction.

We have a history of stomping on ethnic populations in Canada as well, even using Gatling guns (fired by an American Officer sales rep) and artillery against Metis hunters armed with buffalo guns and muskets. Some of the casualties were Catholic nuns acting as nurses in a convent they refused to vacate.

Since you're on a roil, I demand equal abuse and abasement of British/Canadian iconic heroes!

[TwoWalks Baldridge]

Not wanting to degrade the late great John Wayne or lament the passing of Theodore Roosevelt. Also not wishing to name the obvious, I am going to go outside the box and nominate

Movies

cat Ballou.
The Man Who Loved Cat Dancing

Television

peacemakers

All selections made on a strict criteria. Personal choice for laughs and entertainment value.

[Blair]

I wonder how the 120 year misuse of America toward the Spanish peoples Compares to the more than 900 + years of Spanish peoples misuse of all the concord and colonized and enslaved peoples of the world, under Spanish control? And let us not forget the "Spanish Inquisition"!
The Spanish/American War ends Spain's Colonial Empire and Terrine over those populations under their control.

No German Advisers helped Spain... ever? Let me make sure I got this right... EVER?
Who taught the Spaniards how to use the 1898 Mauser in Cuba? (remember the date for the S/AW? 1898.)
So, when Spain needs help to subdue its own National population in the 1930's, who does Spain go to for help? Germany! This time it was Hitler's Germany. Himmler would have been proud of Spains earlier exploits. In fact probably took notes for the SS to fallow.
Of course, Spain, is 100 % blameless in all of this!!!

None of this has to do with the subject of this thread, which is "Favorite Western Monies".
It directly has to do with where some posters feel/believe the blame for Spain's decline belongs. It is not within the Movie "Rough Riders"!
  Blair

[PJ Hardtack]

There was a German naval presence off shore Cuba, but they declined to intervene on the part of the Spanish when a Royal Navy Squadron made it known that they would support the Americans. Smart move ....

Sorry to correct you on the small arms used by the Spanish in Cuba, but I believe that they were Mauser '93's, not K98's, the latter not appearing until late in WWI. The date of the model numbers should have been a clue. Here's an excerpt from Small Arms of the World:

"Spain adopted it's first Mauser in 1891, chambered for the 7.65MM Mauser cartridge also used by Belgium. A rifle and carbine version of this weapon, closely resembling the Argentine Model 1891, were each produced. A considerable quantity of these weapons , especially the carbines, were captured by US troops during the Spanish-American War.
The 1892 Mauser adopted by Spain introduced the 7mm cartridge and the non-rotating extractor attached to the bolt by a collar, which is found on later Mausers  and the US Springfield '03 rifle."

So, like you said, before commenting - "PLEASE GET MORE INFORMATION. OK for the ignorant, but not for smart viewers."

As for Spanish military prowess, the Americans were the last foreign army they crossed bayonets with. They are best remembered for slaughtering their own people during the Spanish Civil War with massive military aid from the Third Reich in support of the Nationalists and Russian aid for the Royalists; foreign interventionists, both.

Major powers can't resist playing a hand in the politics of smaller nations, like the French and American involvement in the Mexican Revolution. But, it makes for great movie material!

We didnt have german advisers in the spanish army at that time and we never had, ever....ok?...... Unlike what you think about our army, we are a european nation with a great military history and tradition. So please, next time that you make a movie, involving our history and our troops, PLEASE GET MORE INFORMATION.

and let me add once again, that WE JUST DIDNT HAVE MACHINE GUNS IN LOMAS DE SAN JUAN,  just Mausers K98s excellenty made in OVIEDO ARSENAL, in 7x57, and masterly handled by our troops, who repealed american attack after american attack (where was TEDDY with his horse
BY THE WAY,  AND  once again.....OF COURSE THAT WE DIDNT HAVE GERMAN ADVISERS.....(you are mistaking the spanish army with general APACHE´S army in  revolutionary Mexico of "WILD BUNCH" fame..... ok for the ignorant, but not for smart viewers..)

[The Trinity Kid]

Wow.....Amazing how politics wiggles it's way into everything........
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I have another movie to add to my favorites.  "Billy the Kid Returns."  Roy Rogers, Mary Hart and Smiley Burnette.  1938, good show.

--TK

[PJ Hardtack]

Welcome to the real world, Kid! The hell of it is that if you don't get involved in politics, you are still affected and wind up being ruled by inferior people.

Wow.....Amazing how politics wiggles it's way into everything........

[PJ Hardtack]

Yes, the K98 was made at La Coruna between 1944-57. Many were later rechambered/barreled to 7.62mm NATO and renamed yet again.
Many have been sold as 'surplus' on the North American markets.

Germany made both the Swedish '96 and the Spanish '93's before each country was up and running to produce their own; forty-five thousand for the Swedes. I've owned a German-made Swedish '96 and it was a jewel of perfection.

you´re totally right, they were not K98s.......there 93´s,  in 7x57 mm, sorry but I it was a lapsus. Also, as you said, 95 short carbines were used. The 98 was adopted by Spain as the MAUSER CORUÑA, in WW2.

it was a lapsus.... by the way, I had a 93, with it´s straight bolt, years ago. the cartridge is delightful to shoot.

the first rifles were made in the OVIEDO factory from living examples bouthg in Germany, making the blueprints in OVIEDO.

there is no tradition of foreign military advisers in our army.

[PJ Hardtack]

Correct, as did the Italians with a token division. The Italians fought well according to all accounts.

false, the last important foreign army we crossed bayonets with, is the russian army, in WW2