Strange hole in my Pietta Sheriff

[Paladin UK]

I have re-posted them using Photobucket!! Dont use MSM fer postin yer Piccies!!

Thars a Strange hole in my Pietta Sheriff!!

Any pards know what this hole is for or is it just a flaw

The hole itself is 2mm. and is flush against the frame







Paladin (Whats gotta know Why  ) UK

[Sagebrush Burns]

More info needed - a picture would help...

[Joe Lafives]

did you shoot that Sheriff?

[Curley Cole]

Ifn it is the little hole under the grips, now ya gotta look all over the room to find the tiny little spring that flew outta that little hole.

curley

[Mako]

Paladin,
What kind of spring does your ratchet hand have on it?  Is there a flat spring attached to it, or is there no spring?
~Mako

[Paladin UK]

Ho Mako..

Its got the bog standard leaf type spring!!

I`ve had the gun nearly a year and the hole only became apparent when decided that I was going to smooth the channel in which the hand/spring runs up and down!!

Paladin (Whats gotta little hole ) UK

[Delmonico]

Might be a worm hole or maybe it ain't been there long and it's a black hole that thingy in Switzerland made.

[Mako]

Ho Mako..

Its got the bog standard leaf type spring!!

I`ve had the gun nearly a year and the hole only became apparent when decided that I was going to smooth the channel in which the hand/spring runs up and down!!

Paladin (Whats gotta little hole ) UK

Paladin,
I'm wondering if they are leaving themselves the option of putting a helical compression spring and a "pawl spring plunger" as the Ruger revolvers have in place of the flat spring.  2mm seems a bit small for the clearance of a plunger diameter, but I don't have a Ruger to compare it with.  I know people are recommending drilling holes to .0935" (roughly 2.4mm) to modify frames to accept the Ruger Pawl Spring Plunger.  There are other plungers that people are using, I'm just not sure about a matching spring diameter that will fit through a 2.0mm hole. 

Of course if Pieta was doing it they would make or source their own parts.  Using the threaded hole for the grip frame attachment could be another way of streamlining the operation and having one less step in the process.

OR...I could be totally off base and the hole could simply be an overly deep the clearance hole for the thread tap.  But, from your photos it appears the drill bit is not centered in the hole, it appears it is low in the hole.  Of course it may be an optical illusion because of the angle of the photo.  If it isn't on center it would be a separate machining step and it would almost demand that we acknowledge it is probably an option for a different spring.

I have a couple of last observations, if it is in centered "left and right" in the hole it would place the centerline of the plunger to the edge of the hand off center and on the commonly beveled edge of the back of the hand which would make it push the hand a bit towards the hammer as well as forward. Also it is awfully low on the hand, a lighter spring with the plunger hitting the back of the hand higher would translate into a better leverage of the force and possibly better feeling hammer cocking action.  Maybe it isn't as important to Pieta as it is to a shooter.  All of the reproduction companies have made changes to suit their manufacturing instead of remaining faithful to the originals or to better handling qualities of the firearms.

Regards,
Mako

[Paladin UK]

Ho Mako..
The drill bit I used on the piccie showing the back of the frame was a 1mm drill so that's why it looks `odd` What I will do over the next day or so is pass the 2mm drill trough and see iffin the hole IS centered in the hole, I will take a piccie and post if iffn it is!! Thanks fer yer input pard, I reckon that iffn it IS the case that this hole Was intended fer a screw plunger jobbie I might jest do that same thing `n` install one, my only reservation at this time (Not having the gun to hand), is your comment that the hole might not be quite where it should be for efficient operation!!

Paladin (What is a bit closer ta knowing the secret of his hole  ) UK

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

PUK;  Have you asked Pietta?

[Mako]

Paladin,
I'm just saying that the Rugers and the modifications to pistols that have the flat hand spring have the plunger contact the back of the hand higher than it would if you used the center line of the Port Side grip frame screw hole.  The farther you move from the pivot point the more leverage you have and it also requires less spring pressure to keep the hand in engagement with the ratchet.

I want to be very clear about this, I'm not saying it won't work, or even work well.  The conversions to the '51s, 60's and 61's are testament to the fact you can have less than "ideal" cylinder arrangements or engagement of the hand to the ratchet and still have a pistol that indexes well.  Beginning with the 1871 Open Top the two stage hands were a "necessary modification" to accommodate the tighter circle of the indexing surfaces of the ratchet. The new ratchet had to shrink to, to allow the rims of the  new cartridges in a cylinder that had been originally envisioned and designed  for enclosed rear breeches.  Colt's original design had the ratchet engagement surfaces outboard of what was possible with the final culmination of the design in the 1873 Single Action Army.   Both single notch hands and double notch hands do the job, they are just "different."  On a helical spring conversion of the hand there is no "correct" answer  for the position.  At least not historically speaking...What most gunsmiths have done is emulate the Ruger design and positions.  Is it the optimum position mechanically speaking for a Colt pattern pistol? I can't say.
If I were you and the hole was at least 2.0mm I would get a new hand, Ruger pawl plunger ( or some approximation thereof)  and try it out.  You could try it and if you didn't like it switch back to the original hand and spring. So get a new hand from VTI or other source and get a plunger and spring from someone like Brownells.
That is my "two pence" worth...

Regards,
Mako

[Paladin UK]

Ho Mako,

I inserted the 2mm drill and it is `Dead Centre` in the hole!! I reckon yer right ta `give it a go`!!  I have got the plunger/hand arrangement on my .22 Uberti 1873 Brocock Sooooo I might just borrow the spring `n` plunger `n` give it a try this weekend!!

Fer Sir Charles..... I will contact Pietta `n` see what their input is on this bugger!!

Paladin (Whats gonna `speriment`  ) UK

[Coffinmaker]

PUK,

Congratulations!!  You've found it!!  Thats none other than Pietta's missing HOLE!!  They want it back!!

Seriously, the hole you have found is for a coil spring and plunger hand spring.  There is a corresponding grip frame screw that has been drilled out to accept the coil spring.  The only down side is the hole is in the wrong place.  It (the hole) is to the left of center for the hand channel and it should be in the center of the hand channel.  When used with all the parts, plunger, spring and screw, it may actually cause a bit of binding on the hand, especially if the plunger is far enough to the left to interfere between the hand and the side of the channel.

Frequently, on the black powder guns, the hand channel is too wide for a coil spring and plunger.  the spring and plunger poke all the way into the channel before contacting the back of the hand and everything comes to a stop.  The hole is approximately 7/32nd (US drill).

If you want to "play" with it, order up a Ruger spring and plunger, and the drilled out screw from VTI gunparts.  Uberti use to do that little mod with their "first" coil and plunger guns until they (Uberti) found it didn't work so swell.  VTI no longer has the Uberti "hollow" screws and I don't know if there are any available from Pietta.  Uberti and Pietta have both gone to the coil spring and plunger, but, it all fits thru it's won hole, farther up on the frame and centered on the hand channel.  Oh, on cartridge guns only.  Not on the BP guns.

Hope this helps

Coffinmaker   

[Coffinmaker]

Hey PUK,

I also just read your other post on the missing click.  Your not missing a click.  Your gun with FOUR clicks has one too many.  A BP replica should only have THREE clicks.  Your Uberti with four, has a serious timing problem and possibly needs the bolt replaced and re-timed.

Coffinmaker

[Paladin UK]

Fer Coffinmaker,
I will look at the timing on the Co-Berty

I`ve had it nearly 2 years and its been just fine even though it has 4 clicks!! That was why I posted the question about the 3 clicks on the sheriff
Sooooo ...what are the 3 clicks on a BP replica 

Thanks pard

Paladin (what DONT need 4 clicks!!) UK

[Coffinmaker]

PUK,

Just for grins, I just spoke with VTI and there are no hollow screws available, Uberti or Pietta.  Oh Well.

Three clicks:  Half Cock, Bolt Rise then Trigger.  Depending on the timing, some guns raise the bolt and lock the trigger at the same time.  Shouldn't do that.  Should be a bit separate. 
The initial "click" for bolt rise is when it pops up into the "lead."  It shouldn't make much noise at all when it rises into the cylinder slot.  Last click is the trigger dropping past the hammer ledge.

When you look into the bottom of the frame with the lock works assembled, the leg of the bolt should be just above (below) the hammer cam.  As the hammer is cocked and almost as soon as it starts to move, it should contact the bolt leg and start to retract the bolt.  It SHOULD NOT drop the bolt but ONCE at the end of it's (hammer) travel, just before the trigger drops in.  The double drop could also be a problem with the cam on the hammer.

Coffinmaker

PS:  Just stick with the flat hand spring.  They do break occasionally, but are easy to replace and quite cheap.

[Paladin UK]

Thanks fer all yer help here pards ...   Much `preciated 

I`m a born `fiddler` and I really get a buzz from fixin/customising my smokepoles!!

Paladin (What likes ta fiddle  ) UK