Division challenge

[Sam Perfye]

To All, Is there any interest in a division challenge for the upcoming Grand Muster? I have located what I think would be a suitable trraveling trophy. My thought is the division (state) that places highest overall, combining shooting placement, field uniform placement, dress uniform placement, and best dressed civilian placement would be awarded the trophy. I'm thinking scoring along the lines of a track meet, 1st place =1point, 2nd place = 2points and so on. Low score is the winner. A minnimum of 3-4 troopers would be required to qualify. Divisions able to field more than one team would need to designate them as Team 1, Team 2 and so on. Trading of members between teams would NOT be allowed. This would be a traveling trophy that the winning team would be expected to return and defend the following year. Please respond here if this is something worth considering. Thanks, Al.

[Captain Lee Bishop]

Sounds like a neat idea, it might be the motivation I needed to get to one of these!

[US Scout]

Shalako,

A good idea but since the Grand Musters don't draw that many from the Atlantic or Pacific divisions (yet), or our International members, I suggest you do an average of each division.  Gives every division attending a fighting chance even if they only have one person participating.

Also, not everyone will be participating in the uniform competitions, or they will compete but not place.  Recommend you give a 4 to those who compete but do not place, and a 5 to those that do not compete.  This way any lack of competion does not provide an undue advantage.

Finally, conduct this as a trial this year to see what works and doesn't work, with the expectation that next year the "rules" will be both better defined and disseminated so that everyone attending will be able to fully participate in the competition.

US Scout
GAF, Commanding

[Pitspitr]

First question:
Division or Department? Scout answered with "Division" but was talking like Department. Division's are States. Department's are Time zones (I still think it should have been the other way around, but that's another story)

Second: track meets are scored 10 for 1st, 8 for 2nd, 6 for 3rd, 5 for 4th, 4 for 5th, 3 for 6th, 2 for 7th, and 1 for 8th; (at least in Nebraska and Division II NCAA). Hi score wins team.

Reguardless of details, it sounds like a great idea to me.

[US Scout]

First question:
Division or Department? Scout answered with "Division" but was talking like Department. Division's are States. Department's are Time zones (I still think it should have been the other way around, but that's another story)

Shalako said "division (state)" so I followed suit.

I have no issue with doing it by Department.  Might be easier at first.

As for the usage of the terms Department, Division and State - no argument from me.  The original idea was to organize the GAF by multi-state regions only and Bvt Brig Gen Scotsman decided to use Departments.  I considered using Division as was used by the late 19th century Army organization, but after learning that several folks had flags made up - I didn't want to negate their efforts by renaming the Departments to Divisions.  As we grew and grew it became necessary to find more organizational titles - thus what we have now.  That said, if my War Council, of which you are a member, would like to recommend we redesignate the Departments as Divisions, the Districts as Departments, and the Divisions as Districts, in keeping with what it should be, I'm ready and willing to listen.

US Scout
GAF, Commanding

[Major Matt Lewis]

I am against the idea.  Soley because there are some wild eyed Kansas boys coming up that will lay down a whippin.  It wouldn't be good for over all morale

[Zouave Officer]

Shalako said "division (state)" so I followed suit.

I have no issue with doing it by Department.  Might be easier at first.

As for the usage of the terms Department, Division and State - no argument from me.  The original idea was to organize the GAF by multi-state regions only and Bvt Brig Gen Scotsman decided to use Departments.  I considered using Division as was used by the late 19th century Army organization, but after learning that several folks had flags made up - I didn't want to negate their efforts by renaming the Departments to Divisions.  As we grew and grew it became necessary to find more organizational titles - thus what we have now.  That said, if my War Council, of which you are a member, would like to recommend we redesignate the Departments as Divisions, the Districts as Departments, and the Divisions as Districts, in keeping with what it should be, I'm ready and willing to listen.

US Scout
GAF, Commanding

I've noticed that the Department of the Missouri refers to States as Division's, and I know in the Atlantic we have three organizations of several states known as Districts (Northern, Central, & Southern). I know I had suggested this District organization to Col. Schmitt for adoption to maximize the efforts in the Atlantic, and we are still working on them, but I think they offer some better results seeing as that we might not have as many members in S.C. however when you combine S.C., Ga., & N.C. (and so on) you have more who are closer and able to attend a few more events together, and expand on it from there. It's the same theory used by the Confederate Government when they created the Department of Georgia, South Carolina, & Florida, which had within it the District of Georgia, the District of Florida (which was later split into three districts being Northern, Southern, Middle if memory serves me right), and in S.C. due to the various areas it was divided into 7 Military Districts. Anyways this sounds like a discussion for another subject though, and I just thought I'd chime in with my two cents on organization.

I know as far as Division (Districts here in Atlantic) competition I sort of like the idea, and hope that we can work out the details next year for a Department Muster where the three Districts could compete against each other, I think it would be well worth it to give it a try even on a trial basis, and watch with much curiosity to see how it works at the National Muster.

[Pitspitr]

but since the Grand Musters don't draw that many from the Atlantic or Pacific divisions (yet), or our International members,

Ok I'm following you now. The way it was worded I thought you just mis-spoke and said divisions when you meant departments.

As far as changing designations now I agree, it's too late. That's why I said but that's another story.

Now as to your idea of an average score for each division, I really like it; though I don't think Nebraska would need a handicap to whupp up on Kansas 

S. Al How much would the trophy cost and could you bring it with you to the Muster?

[Sam Perfye]

To All, As it sounds there is interest I will continue with this project. As suggested, some tweeking of the scoring appears to be in order. My suggestion of competition by division was in part due to not all departments being equally represented. I will leave it to (Bvt) Col. Pitspitr as match director to make the call on how to divide the competition.                                                                                                                                                                         Col. Pitspitr, yes I will bring the trophy with me. The cost is minimal. Al.

[Gripmaker]

OOOHHH BBBOOOYYY!!! I can hardly wait to see what this IOWAY boy brings as a trophy that is of minimal cost. Having lived just up the road from him for quite a few years (he woulda been in grade school though) and knowing the area, I can noly guess what it might be and I'm keeping that to myself as I don't want to rattle the troops.

[Sam Perfye]

To All, Have revised scoring for the challenge and would appreciate comments. All catagories (shooting, field, and dress) scored-- 10 pts. for 1st, 8 pts. for 2nd, 6 pts. for 3rd, 4th thru last 4 pts. no entry 2 pts. Total points for division divided by number of troopers present at roll call. High score to be declared champion. Scouts and Auxillaries to be scored with the divison they are attached to. Comments? Questions? Thanks, Al.

[Sam Perfye]

Just an update. The engraver said everything would be done no later than Tues. Wild-eyed Kansas boys aside, the winners name(Div.) has not yet been inscribed. See ya'll Thurs. evening. Al.

[RattlesnakeJack]

Hello all:

Don't know if Shalako Al got a chance to take any pictures of the fine Division Challenge Trophy he provided, so figured I might just put one up her for everyone to see, since I have the great honour of being the first to take it home .... to the Division of Canada, Department of the International.

A picture I just snapped in my back yard, with the Trophy safely ensconced for a year .... north of the Medicine Line!

(Was there some "blowing" earlier in the thread about wild Kansas boys hangin' a whuppin' on the other Divisions?        )

[Major Matt Lewis]

There was, but that howelling was predicated on the hypothesis that a certain Marine from Kansas would not reload squibs.... That Marine shall remain nameless as we have all agreed to help out Guns Garrett with the ammo next year....

[Pitspitr]

There was, but that howelling was predicated on the hypothesis that a certain Marine from Kansas would not reload squibs....

I'm Wondering Major Matt, if it might be a Kansas Marine thing as there was another Kansas Marine who tried to make squib loads but accidentally included enough powder to make the target go "tink". I was a little surprised as I didn't realize that a .45 could just make a target go "tink" instead of "CLANG!" 

[Major Matt Lewis]

Ancient Marine Secret...Notice I was still able to hit the far pistol targets when I did my job...

[Pitspitr]

Notice I was still able to hit the far pistol targets when I did my job...

Soo.... In the Corp were you an artilleryman, mortars and all that? How many hours of angle did you have to hold over?

[Major Matt Lewis]

Infantry...and dang good at it....But before that, I was in the New Hampshire National Guard as an.....artilleryman.