Colt Cap and Ball fix

[Mako]

I'm wondering if anyone can or is willing to say what we have learned from this "tempest in a tea pot."  Maybe we've all been told how the cows ate the cabbage and now we should stand in awe...

But, back to the original question,  I read the article, I'm even looking for another frame to try it with.  I'm a bit dubious of the long term reliability so I'm not willing to try it on any of my current percussion revolvers.  As Pettifogger noted the apparent workmanship depicted in the photos was lacking and there was little more than anecdotes provided as to the efficacy after the modification, so I am going to have to try it for myself.  I also believe the pin could potentially get a fragment either wrapped around or on the backside which means you'd be back to square one.  I rarely have had a problem with a whole cap, flattened or otherwise causing a stoppage or blocking a full hammer strike on the next cap.  The problems I have encountered have been with fragments.  The pin won't eliminate fragments, cap guards like the Manhattan style modifications Pettifogger and some of us have on pistols also don't totally eliminate problems caused by smaller fragments.

You should "listen" after you have asked a question.  Many of the people you have spoken roughly to are the very competitors you claim you want to hear from.  Based on some of your comments such as people talking about an "unknown powder" , asking whether you should try the modification on a '51 or a '60 and the fact you are weighing charges has caused more than one of us to question your experience with black powder or percussion revolvers.

What you should take away from this thread is:

• Original equipment nipples have large flash holes allowing more blowback  causing more fragmentation of the caps and potential blowback of the hammer (not enough to even go to half cock, but just enough to allow pieces to creep around the added pin in your original question).
  
• Tresso nipples have served most of us who compete with loose powder revolvers very well
• The slot in the hammer face serves no useful purpose for a Cowboy Action Shooter (we only are allowed five loaded chambers).  It serves as an area to catch on or allow a cap to form itself in.  For increased reliability it should be welded up and the face re-cut flush.
• When a man (or woman for that matter) says they use fffg they mean BLACK POWDER, only someone who uses a substitute would have to qualify that with APP, Pinnacle, Pyrodex or other such denominator.  (Notice I didn't even besmirch your manhood for using anything other than the Wholly Black. We're a friendly bunch and we forgive a lot if it makes a little smoke...) We rarely even talk about which manufacture of powder we use when discussing pistols, you'd be hard pressed to show us a discernable performance difference.  Now if you are talking about long range rifles, then that is a different matter.  The main discussions about powder usually involve what grain size, how many different cartridges or weapons you can use it in and where you can get the best price.  That is a bit of an exaggeration because we also discuss fouling and cleanliness.
• Weighing a Black Powder Charge (or a substitute) is basically useless and it is potentially dangerous (which is supported by all of the manufactures of BP and the substitutes in their literature).  Black Powder is all about volume, leaving no empty spaces and compression.

   
So, if you want to get out of the firing line I have these suggestions: Respect those who know as much or more than you do; "Listen" attentively; don't just "talk," do...;  go out and try the modification then report your results (not just the immediate, but long term); provide your bona fides as Fingers McGee suggested; and lastly realize the collective experience on this thread alone is equivalent to several centuries (that alone should give you pause).

Have a nice evening and the best of luck with your experiments,
Mako  ( As for my bona fides, I shoot Colt pattern percussion revolvers exclusively in Cowboy matches)

[Cuts Crooked]

I rec'd the ok to post the article.
As soon as I get it I will notify folks where to view it.

Thanx Hedley! Yer a good Pard to have around

[Roosterman]

Quote from: Oddman on Yesterday at 12:37:37 AM
Fiddler Green,
I also shoot Pietta 60's, have you changed out the nipples on your guns ? I changed to treso nipples and have very few problems, I alaso lowered the powder charge (with less blow back through the nipple) the expended caps appear to stay on. I think the hole in the treso nipple is smaller then stock nipples, which aids in the reduction of blow back. Thats my 2 cents.
If the fix in the C.C. works, I may have to try it.  Best of luck shooting

Oddman

+1

+2
TRESO nipples solved all my problems. a have a pietta '5 and '61 navy with TRESOs I shoot 19gr real black and a couple Uberti armies with TRESOs that I shoot 24gr real BP in. No problemo with cap fragments balling up the works. These guns are as dependable as any of my cartridge guns.

[Alabama]

Since I shoot "competively" in my mind at my targets , I figure I am qualified to share here .  Sometimes I even shoot fast , believe it or not . 
I haven't had allot of problems with cap fragmentation in any of my revolvers , be them 51 , 61 , or Dragoon or Walker , or Rogers and or Spillers . It does happen and still does once in a great while .
I smooth everything up , don't widen anything like the safety knotch out or anything , just smooth all surfaces real well .
One thing I do know that helped me when I first started over 20 years ago is cocking the pistol and tilting it back slightly while doing that , drops allot of cap debree out of the back and sides , not down the innards .
I personally have never thought it to be a problem with cap and ball guns, its just part of the animal , and is a small part .
But I don't shoot in competitons like you all do , yet , but I seriously doubt it happens much to you anyway , maybe rarely ?
I have had better luck with CCI caps over Remington caps and over RWS caps , they seams to really splatter in my guns . So I ordered a gross of Navy Arms CCI's and really don't have a problem with my guns , fast or slow . At least not a big enough problem to make a pin type modification to my already proven cap and ball guns . That's my two cents , worth one .

Alabama


PS..... I do apologize for my prior post , I get a little worked up from time to time when arrogance runs rampant and I feel I am on the reciving end of the insult . I made a vague comment about SASS people being like IPSC people in my hostility and I really know most of you are not like that or them . My apologies sincerely . But he had it commin !  That I make no apology for .

[Noz]

The real winner here is Fingers.

Sir: I admire your restraint.
As you could tell from my PM, I could not have done so.

[Fiddler Green]

   Fiddler, most of us brainless people would figure that if a man writes just ffg or fffg that the man is talking about plain ol' black powder, pard.
  And believe or not the HOLY BLACK is not rocket science. If you want to be competative try practicing and not finding the right formulas for everything.
  And last but not least, you should admit that you were just a bit pompous in a texas size way. Take a deep breath pard and life might be a little easier.         Gun Butcher

So, you shoot "real" black powder. Goex, Swiss, home made?? It makes a diffrence!

I didn't want to have to explain the whole article to people who didn't/couldn't read it!

There are people here, who think hanging a brace of cap and ball pistols on their wall is the same as shooting them. I don't realy care to hear what they think and I don't have time to sift through everything to see who really shoots and who dosen't. If you do, more power to you!

If you had read my post, you'd know that I do practice. That's when I experiment. Didn't figure that took explaining.....guess it did.

Bruce

[Noz]

Fiddler, most of us can and do read and a whole lot of us have actually fired a pistol or two. If you want advice or suggestions, this is the place. If you want to impress some one, go else where.

I don't think anyone was impressed. I know I wasn't.

I'd recommend you pull in your horns a little.

[shieldsmt]

Fiddler, don't you have a dog you could just go kick? 

[Cuts Crooked]

Ok pards, we're done here.