STS and AA hulls

[Tequila Jim]

I have just started loading a few of the STS hulls. 4.0cc Goex 2f, red win. wad, 1 1/8 oz. shot, over shot card.
I seem to have extra space at the top of the colum as opposed to the AA hulls. Should I add an over powder wad or
find a taller plastic wad. Your help will be greatly appreciated. Regards,TJ

[hellgate]

Hells bells, your missing another opportunity to PUT IN A LITTLE MORE POWDER! Don't bother with the over shot wad unless you are roll crimping. Get a 4.3 cc bushing for the STS hulls. Keep in mind you can shorten that red wad to add even more powder (as long the patterns hold) by either cutting out the "legs" all together from between the cup and the OP wad OR you can cut the wad in two across the middle of the "legs" and then rotate the wad 90 degrees and push the two parts together for a shorter wad. In essence you have 3 different wad columns from one wad. You could likely get 80-85 grs powder and 1 1/8oz shot with the shortest column and your standard lower power load from the long wad. I use the standard white AA wad and 55grs powder + 7/8oz shot for a nice, soft shooting light load in the STS hulls.

[Noz]

For me the 4.3cc dipper is just perfect with 1 1/8 shot and the Claybuster replica of the Winchester wad.

[Dick Dastardly]

Keep yer eye on 'em new AAs.  The base wad kin come loose and stick in yer bore.  The original and classic AA hull was one piece.  Ain't so no more.

Them nice green STS hulls are one piece.

Love 'em.

DD-DLoS

[Tequila Jim]

Yeah, yeah, yeah I can do the 4.3cc thing, but I do like the milder load. If you were to see my crimps you
would know why I use the over shot card . The AA's i use are definately older stock, a pard was given a 55 gal
drum of old AA hulls. I guess more powder is my only hope. Regards, TJ

[Jefro]

Jim, I've been using Remington SP12 for 55gr ffg with 1 1/8oz #8 shot and STS hulls. For AA hulls. Try BPI  HELIX CUSHION DRIVER 18 wads, they're about 1/8'' shorter OAL. For a lighter 7/8oz load I use 46gr ffg with BPI  HELIX CUSHION DRIVER 24 wads. They both take care of KDs and poppers. Balistic Products list the deminsions of thier wads. Hope this helps.
http://www.ballisticproducts.com/


  Jefro

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

As long as you compress the powder with some sort of wad, a little bit of airspace above the shot will not hurt anything. I too add a thin .030 thick over shot card over my charges. I am using 4.3CC of FFg, a 1/8" thick Circle Fly over powder card, 1/2" thick Cirlcle Fly fiber cushion wad, & 1 1/8 ounces of #8 shot. The height of that column does not quite fill up the hull completely, so my crimps wind up being a little bit concave. In the concave condition there is often a hole at the center of the crimp that allows a pellet or two to escape. So I place an overshot card over the shot. This flattens out my crimps, and also seals the shot in at the same time. Yes, if I wanted to I could add a little bit more powder to fill up the hull more, but I really don't need to add any more powder. The 4.3CC dipper is the biggest one in the Lee set, and I don't want to be double dipping to add more powder, and I'm too lazy to make a custom dipper. Besides, this load clobbers anything I point it at, so there is really no need for more power.

The key here is to make sure you got all the air out of the powder charge and have slightly compressed the powder with whatever you are using for a wad. As long as your wad stays in place and does not shift, you are good. A little airspace in the shot column will not hurt anything. If you are going to use an over shot card, be sure you use something very thin, so as not to disturb the shot pattern. A .030 card will not disturb the pattern. Something heavier might.

[Missouri Marshal]

Keep yer eye on 'em new AAs.  The base wad kin come loose and stick in yer bore.  The original and classic AA hull was one piece.  Ain't so no more.

Them nice green STS hulls are one piece.

Love 'em.

DD-DLoS

DD I've heard that about the AA hulls but have never seen it happen.  I reload thousands of them every year, some 2 or 3 times, and have never seen anything on any of them to indicate they might be coming apart.  I'm not doubting ya pard, jus wonderin if you or anyone else has ever actually seen this happen or if maybe someone was ringin the shells for them to come apart.  If you have actually seen this, where does it come apart at?

[Dick Dastardly]

As I said before, watch 'em new shiny Winchester AA hulls.  The new two piece construction uses a base wad that can come loose and stick in your barrel.  That could spoil your whole day.  The Remington STS hulls are still one piece, as are the old original AA hulls.

I've got some old guns that were made before the heathen plastic wads were introduced.  They pattern better with all fiber wads and you don't have to clean plastic out of your scatterguns.  I get my fiber wads from Circle Fly http://www.circlefly.com/ .  They have very good service and all the different sizes you could ever want.  I think Ballistic Products gets their un-plastic wads from Circle Fly.  This is your chance to cut out the middle man.

When it comes to adjusting the wad column, I do that by adjusting the thickness of the fiber wad.  Since I like easy cleanup, I lube my fiber wads in a 50-50 mix of cheap vegie shortning and container blend soy wax.  FWIW, those are two of the ingredients in PL-II.  The Third ingredient and the ratio I won't give away.  Soy Wax at  http://secure.candlesupply.com/   .

Since I do a roll crimp on all my bp ammo cuz it gives more even pressure on once fired hulls, I get the roll crimp drill bit here. . http://precisionreloading.com/Rollcrimpers.htm  .  If you scroll down just a little you will fine one for under Twelve bux.  I use a bench top drill press to spin mine, but a hand held drill motor works great.

DD-DLoS

[Dick Dastardly]

Howdy MM,

Take one of the new and very shiny AA hulls and cut one lengthwise.  You will be able to see the inserted plastic base wad.  All it takes is for a couple of grains of powder to get under the base wad and it'll leave.  It probably won't have enuf force to clear the barrel, but it will sit part way down waiting to make a pipe bomb out of yer scattergun.  This would be a fairly rare but potentially dangerous development.

I'll dig around and see if I kin find one.  If I do, I'll take it on the band saw and cut it lengthwise and take a photo and post it on this thread.  I'll do the same with one of the old style ones also, for comparison.

DD-DLoS

[Tequila Jim]

Thanks all you good people. Regards, TJ

[Springfield Slim]

Here is a pic of both styles. I have been reloading the new style for a couple of years now and have had no problems, but I only load them with BP once and pitch them.

[Dick Dastardly]

Thanks Slim,

You beat me to the camera trigger.  As your photos very well show, there is a difference in the base wad.  The old style is one piece and the new ones are Two piece.  I've not seen that base wad come from together, but I have been shown a bulged shotgun barrel that had one in it.  The guy was shooting trap and reloads his hulls till they split.

I do what you do.  Load 'em once and trash 'em.  They shuck out of my guns better that way.  I do load once fired new style AA hulls, but I check the base wad for looseness with a dental pick.  FWIW, I've not found any loose ones.

DD-DLoS

[Wills Point Pete]

 If you have too much space over the shot column for a good crimp, why not buy a batch of those Circle Fly Nitro Card Wads and compress the powder with them? Those wads are an 1/8 inch thick and you can put whatever cushion type wad you like over them. Normally I put a Claybuster copy of the Winchester Red over mine because my double patterns better with them. I usually have a few  with me, though, with fiber wads when I want a wider pattern.
If the 1/8 wad isn't thick enough you might try adding some thin overshot wads UNDER the Claybuster. I use the Mag Tech brass hulls, so I must use an overpowder wad, the Claybusters are too small. They work fine over the Nitro Wad, though. The plastic is too small to keep the powder compressed but the Nitro Wad smushes the plastic wad up to fill the hull and then it comes right down in the barrel.

[Surly Bob]

I admit the STS are purty nice hulls.  Problem I have is that my '87 is tuned for AA's.  So I do like some others, I only reload once shot two piece AA's with BP once and pitch 'em. 

[boothill bones]

On the same topic

    Anyone make a press mounted 11 Gauge wad cutter?

    I know that a 12 Gauge press mounted cutter is out there but that is more for muzzle loading rather than Hulls (either brass or plastic). I have getting 11 gaugle 0.3 cardboard wads 500 at a time but just wanted to know if I could be cutting my own and experimenting...

       bones

[Missouri Marshal]

Howdy MM,

Take one of the new and very shiny AA hulls and cut one lengthwise.  You will be able to see the inserted plastic base wad.  All it takes is for a couple of grains of powder to get under the base wad and it'll leave.  It probably won't have enuf force to clear the barrel, but it will sit part way down waiting to make a pipe bomb out of yer scattergun.  This would be a fairly rare but potentially dangerous development.

I'll dig around and see if I kin find one.  If I do, I'll take it on the band saw and cut it lengthwise and take a photo and post it on this thread.  I'll do the same with one of the old style ones also, for comparison.

DD-DLoS

DD, I did what ya said and cut one lengthwise.  I can see the two piece construction but I would say it would be near impossible for any powder to get under it.  Even if it did, the main powder charge on top of it would force it to the rear, not out the barrel.(newton's third law of motion, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, that's what recoil is)  Also consider this.  Winchester, as well as most powder manufacturers, promote the reloading of these hulls.  The legal liability alone would prevent them from doing this if there was any possibility of the base wad coming out and obstructing the barrel.  I think this is one of those campfire stories that has been told so many times that folks take it as the truth.  I'm from Missouri, the Show Me state.  Until someone can prove otherwise I don't believe it is possible.

[Dick Dastardly]

Howdy Marshall,

I'm thinkn' that the gun I saw with the bulged barrel from the stuck AA base wad was exceptional.  My only caution is to be aware that the Two part AA construction isn't the same as the old.  Since I don't load heathen shells much anymore, I don't know if the data for the two are interchangeable.

Most bp handloaders, myownself included, don't reload plastic hulls many times.  They simply don't last cuz the Holy Black burns 'em too much.  Load once and toss 'em.  So, it's probably the heathens that load hulls till they fall apart that would expect to see the base wad separation.

FWIW, powder under the basewad could burn last and have just enough force to push a loose wad out and part way down the barrel.  The pressure would fall off quite soon cuz of the primer hole in the wad.  That same primer hole wouldn't be big enough to allow enough stuff past soon enough to prevent the gun from becoming a pipe bomb.  You're right about equal and opposite reactions tho.  It would take a delayed burn to cause a problem.

DD-DLoS

[Tequila Jim]

Last couple of monthly shoots that I have attended lots of STS hulls but not so many AA's.
May be a sign of the times as they say, and lots of the not so popular shells. Local Wally
World is now carrying a Remington Sport Load. Regards, TJ

[Missouri Marshal]

Howdy Marshall,

I'm thinkn' that the gun I saw with the bulged barrel from the stuck AA base wad was exceptional. 
DD-DLoS

That's a little different, you hadn't said you actually saw one stuck in the barrel of a gun.  Up till now, no one has ever told me that they had actually seen one.  Even so, after looking at the way they are constructed I would think that the one you saw was defective from the factory or had been damaged somehow.  If that happens, anything is possible.  I'm still loading pyrodex in my shotgun shells.  At the end of hunting season Wally World put it on sale for $7.00 per pound.  With both me and the wife shooting FC, 2-4 matches a month, I couldn't pass up the savings.  I check my hulls as I load them, if they look bad I toss them, if they look oK, I load them up.  Happy Trails.